Denzity Insights Transcript: Hong Kong Commercial Leasing with Cydon Choi


Hong Kong Commercial Leasing With Cydon Choi

Connect with Cydon:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cydon/

We have Cydon to share his insights on Hong Kong’s commercial real estate leasing market. Even though the city has been undergoing a lot of ups and downs. He feels there will be many opportunities up ahead.

Cydon Choi is the Senior Manager at JLL. He advises international and local clients on strategy and negotiations in the Hong Kong commercial real estate space.

  • How is commercial leasing different from residential?
  • What do the landlords look for in a tenant?
  • Which areas are tenants more attracted to?
  • What is the future of the Hong Kong commercial leasing market?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Source:

Commercial leasing broker: A commercial leasing broker is basically a middle man that brings landowners and tenants together and assist them with the whole leasing procedure.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/businessideas/leasing-broker

COVID-19: Current ongoing global pandemic.

https://www.who.int/

Rental concession: A rental concession can be a gift, a discount or any kind of goods or services provided to the tenant from the landlord, out of a contract. It is usually for a short period of time.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/rental-concessions-4172961

Rental deferment: Rent deferment allows tenants to postpone paying rents to a certain period of time, under certain conditions.

Coworking: Coworking is a cost efficient way for workers from different companies to work in a shared office space.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/coworking

Coliving: Coliving is a concept typically adopted by the youth to live in a full-furnished residence with private rooms and shared common spaces.

https://coliving.com/what-is-coliving

Coretail: Coretailing is when entities share a space as a retailing store.

Subdivided apartment: The subdivision of flats or apartments into several units is known as a subdivided apartment.

https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/safety-inspection/ubw/UBW-in-sub-divided-flats/index_ubw_subflat_intro.html

Swire: https://www.swire.com/en/global/home.php

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

Transcript:

Darren: So hey Cydon. Hey, how’s it going, man?

Cydon: Very good. Thanks.

Darren: Yeah. First of all, thanks for coming in. And then even for myself right, I have work in, you know, as a buy side in real estate – commercial space, but I have never understood, you know, for example your side of Hong Kong leasing, the scope and what’s going on there. So it’d be great to have you tell people, the audience – myself included more about what you do and what opinions you have with the markets currently.

Cydon: Sure. Yeah. I mean, first of all, do you want me to do an introduction of myself or just dive right into it?

Darren: Sure.

Cydon: Yeah. Well, my name is Cydon and thanks for having me, Darren. So I’ve been in the commercial real estate space for about almost coming up to four years now. Before Hong Kong, before I moved to Hong Kong four years ago, I working in fast moving consumer goods. So with companies like Unilever, Clorox, and then make the move to Hong Kong four years ago where I started in the commercial real estate space with with an agency called Colliers. And then right after about two years, I joined Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL), also in the commercial real estate commercial leasing side and so here I am today.

Darren: There you go. And here we are. So first of all right, would you mind telling the audience what’s the scope for commercial leasing agents? And what are the things that you would do to date?

Cydon: Sure, well as commercial leasing brokers, what we are essentially is we are the clients most accountable person all the way from the beginning to finding an office and to all the way to the end of actually leasing the space and coming back to the terms and the conditions of the lease. So what I mean by this is we start with a discovery process usually of identifying what is the client’s organization. So, for example, if you are a company or a subsidiary, what your needs are, what the amount of space you need is, what district, what building quality, what proximity to partners and to other clients of yours that you need be, needing to be close to. So these are all factors in the very beginning of the search and then throughout the process, we then help you short list. And then finally pick the short listed and final buildings for us to negotiate on. So the final process of this would be to actually negotiate and to actually come to the best and final terms and conditions for the clients. And then that will close out the transaction after they move in.

Darren: I see. So I’m sure a lot of audience might be more familiar with residential like they have their own house. You know, they have investments , they have that kind of residential leasing. So what are some key leasing terms that is different when comparing from commercial to residential?

Cydon: That’s a good question. Yeah, because we most of us are most familiar with residential leases just from our daily exposure. I’ll say one of the main differences is the length of the contract term. The most common contract term for residential leases that we find in Hong Kong usually are one year fixed and then plus one more year of what we call flexibility. And this just means a renewal. And then after this term, your contract is on a month to month basis with the landlord and for commercial leases, usually they are around two to three years at least – three years being the most common. And in terms of the actual terms, the conditions and the clauses within these contracts, the residential leases, usually around three or four pages, would cover most of the conditions that you would actually sign on to. For commercial leases, it’s a lot more complex and there’s a lot more terms and clauses that covers the liabilities and protects the liabilities of the landlords as well. And so they can range up to something like 80 to 100 pages even. So those would be the quickest differences, I would say, between these two.

Darren: I see. I see. Yeah, I’m sure like, if someone has stay for so such a long time, it’s not only a year or two years, maybe up to three, four or five, six years right. And then I guess the leasing is going to be more expensive as well. I’m sure the landlord will want to know more about the tenant, more covenants behind that. So, in that regard right, what are some key things that like a commercial landlord will want to know about the tenants?

Cydon: Well, let’s be honest. Number one most important thing is whether or not a tenant can pay rent on time. I’d say that’s probably most of their concern.

Darren: That’s the most important thing.

Cydon: Exactly. It all comes down to money at the end of the day. So that’s what we kind of mean when we say a tenants covenant. So how secure this tenant is within the market, within the office market and how secure their ability to pay rent is. So, this is definitely top of mind for a landlord when it comes to finding a tenant. But there are also several factors that come into play when a landlord considers a tenant. One of them being the tenant profile. So how reputable is their name? Are they right for the building? You know, if they are a banking client? Are you really going to go into a building that’s full of, let’s say, media and tech companies? That’s probably not the right fit as well. So the very background and the industry nature of the tenants is very important to the landlord. And also one more thing is the growth as well. Landlords do love tenants that naturally have more hunger for space overtime as they go because who doesn’t want a tenant inside that eventually just wants more and more space and ends up leasing more and more of the building over time. So this is also a scenario that the landlord will consider whenever they look for things like Forkan,.

Darren: So on regard of like for the landlord to understand if the tenant can pay or not right, what are some kind of documents would a tenant usually need to provide no matter what to a landlord in order to prove that tenant can pay the landlord?

Cydon: Right. So the two most important documents that are the most commonly accepted by the landlord is the B.R. and the A.R. B.R., being the business registration. This one, basically, any type of business entity in Hong Kong would have on file. The other one is the annual return or the A.R. So this document proves how much the share value is and how much income, how much cash flow and how cash positive a business is. So this is usually a crucial document that the landlord will use to decide whether or not this tenant has enough covenants or enough ability to actually pay rent for the long term. So this will be the most important.

Darren: So let’s say if the tenant is not from Hong Kong, don’t necessarily have B.R is there something that you know, I’m sure you have more experience than me, what kind of stuff do they need to supply – the tenants that maybe oversea tenants that say, “hey, that’s my first presence in Hong Kong and I really want some type of good space,” so what kind of stuff would the landlord ask for to make sure that, you know, even though you’re miles away from HQ I would still want to lease out to you if you’re comfortable with it.

Cydon: Yeah. So unfortunately the Hong Kong real estate industry is still very archaic in terms of the amount of paperwork and documents and a very traditional way of mailing and stamping documents. This is still very, very much prevalent in the Hong Kong real estate industry. So unfortunately for oversea clients that are coming to Hong Kong, what they will really need to do is to set up a presence in Hong Kong so they’ll actually need to register under the Hong Kong Companies Registry. So they have already a registered presence here in Hong Kong. What they can do, though, is because they haven’t conducted business in Hong Kong, they could use overseas support, for example, very simply how much cash they have in, you know, in their corporate accounts. If they can prove anything to the landlord that they are a cash positive commercial tenant, then the landlord might actually consider moving forward with a lease, even without concrete Hong Kong proof that they have, an account here or with anything. It very much is still a very archaic type of system here. So very traditional still.

Darren: I sense some anger in there. We’re talking about paperwork and archaic, so I can sense how annoying things are if that’s the case.

Cydon: That’s right.

Darren: Yeah. So moving on right because I have so many questions to be honest. Like I wish this video can go longer. There’s a couple of questions in my head. I mean I talk to you a lot, but there’s always questions I have with real estate right. So like,you know, we’re all kind of in recession right now. And you know, I’m sure a lot tenants which there are a lot of people that we know that have tenants or they’re leasing somewhere that needs help. What are some things that you think landlords can do to help tenants out a little bit?

Cydon: So, unfortunately, like I said before, the landlords here in Hong Kong are quite traditional. Usually they’re not very flexible when it comes to rental terms or what we call concessions or relief. But what we’re seeing after three months of protest and after months of the Corona virus situation is that more and more landlords are now a little bit more open to what we call rental concessions, which can include rental relief. So maybe temporarily reducing the rental to help businesses, you know, kind of go through the hard times. But also we have negotiated or are negotiating terms like rental deferments, for example. Rental deferments would include simply delaying a rental payment or delaying certain months of payments until a certain time when, you know, when the conditions of the market recover for the business. I mean, this is obviously done on a very case by case basis. It really depends on how flexible the landlord is and how sympathetic they are to a tenant situation. But it also depends on the tenants nature of business as well. If you’re a semi retail tenant but, you know, due to the Corona virus, you could not have anyone come and there is absolutely no revenue whatsoever, I believe that is a very strong case to plea to the landlord for rental relief. But if you are a company that you’re able to really work from home most of the time and you can function and still bring in revenue over the course of this virus situation with a protest situation, then perhaps the landlord would not have that much flexibility for you. But I mean, aside from these, though, I would say that landlords can do a few things here and there, even without adjusting the rentals. Things are, for example, even simply as freezing or controlling the management fees. The management fee is something that every tenant in the building will have to pay. And usually this is by a per square foot basis that’s fixed. So something like a fixed costs like this, the landlord might be able to that’s a temporarily reduce it or control it so that at least the tenant will be able to to stabilize their costs over hard times. But I guess the other most important thing is that landlords should continue to upkeep their buildings as well to make sure that, you know, that right amount of talent and the right amount of traffic are still going into the building and out of the building because this is the only way for a business just to continue to bring in revenue. So I believe if landlords are able to do most of these or are at least flexible in some of these, then this will really help out some tenants during tough times like a recession.

Darren: Yeah, it sounds you know, like how we are in Hong Kong for the past one year almost, right? Yeah. It has been a really tough time. It’s really tough. So, you know, I’m sure landlords wants to have rental income and everything, but I think you need some help for the tenant, because that’s how we work together in Hong Kong. You know, join forces and stuff like that. So like I know that Covid-19 has a big topic. Everyone really uncertainty because they don’t know what’s going on. But beside that or include that, how do you feel the leasing market have evolved since you have been around for quite some time in this industry? I just want to know your opinion because no one really talks about, you know, the broker side or the leasing side, what’s going on, you know, how are these things turning to be or even outlook in the future, how is going to be?

Cydon: Right. I mean, this is a very, very complex situation that we’re in. There are so many underlying factors that are so variable in the market right now. But there are a few things that I think are going to prolong the sustainability of the Hong Kong – sorry, Hong Kong commercial real estate market. One is that even through any type of political or virus situation, such as what we just saw with the global financial crisis before and what we saw with the SARS virus before, hong Kong has always had a very quick recovery to these type of outbreaks or these type of significant events. And so I really don’t think that the Corona virus situation or the protest situation is really anything different. If anything, this might be a more prolonged nature of it. And the other thing is Hong Kong will still remain an important hub for commercial transactions and activity. A lot of MNC still think that Hong Kong is one of the best places in Asia to have their headquarters or APAC headquarters and also the developers here in Hong Kong are also very bullish on the outlook of Hong Kong. So not only are they cash rich, they are able to invest a lot and continue to invest in buildings and building up new projects and new infrastructure in the city. I mean that coupled with the fact that Hong Kong will always have a lack of land as one of the major issues being said, there are going to be many, many more creative ways that I believe developers will be able to develop projects. One of the things is that there are many concepts outside in the world right now in different cities where certain buildings are no longer purely for residential or purely for commercial. Some of them are, you know, cold living or coworking. And then some of them will have different types of amenities, all in the same building. So these are two types of new concepts that Hong Kong has the potential to explore. And Hong Kong has the potential to actually invest and built these type of developments. And so I think the leasing market will evolve to the point where a broker would not simply be just brokering an office space in an office building. We might be selling an entire type of different type of environment. The office might be within a coworking space, which is within a building which has co-living elements or different type of retail elements with different type of wellness elements, all within one giant type of an ecosystem, more environment. And I think this is where the leasing market might evolve to in the near future.

Darren: That’s cool. So it seems like what I’m getting at is that the asset itself, tend in the past tend to be a really specific type. For example a building might be pure residential, pure, you know, retail or whatever. But then obviously there are different types of tenants now. There are coworking, co-living and there’s a mixture of stuff, and the ecosystem now, it seems like the buildings have their own ecosystem to help each other so it’s no longer to be one type, you know, vanilla, just plain one type of asset. So with that right, because I know that everyone talks about coworking space, you know, the whole Wework thing and so on. It’s something that I’m sure like, you know, we’re all just guessing, what’s going on as feelings. In your point of view right, in Hong Kong co-living is a really big topic with the housing problems and stuff like that. I know you’re in commercial real estate, but kind of touched together, how do you feel about that industry, like getting along in the next couple years and then do you think those mechanisms are going to save Hong Kong or help Hong Kong a little bit on leasing?

Cydon: See co-living, I know there have been many types of developers and different types of businesses that have tried to launch co-living spaces here in Hong Kong. Some of them have been successful, but most of them have not. And I believe one of the main reasons is because the concept of co-living is still very foreign to a city like Hong Kong. And also the fact that, yes, land cost is extremely expensive and therefore the per square footage of whatever living space you’re living at will be extremely expensive either way. So I believe the cost differential between a regular, let’s say, subdivided apartment really wouldn’t be that different from a co-living type of environment. So, I mean, do I see co-living, you know, like skyrocketing out into a trend very quickly? I don’t think so. I think this will be a much more slower trend to develop here in Hong Kong when Hong Kong locals and expats start developing an appetite or at least an open mind to this type of concept.

Darren: So that’s co-living, how about like coworking or co-retail in Hong Kong. How do you feel about that?

Cydon: I think coworking definitely has a lot of potential here in Hong Kong. However, coworking spaces usually you attract two type of tenants. One is for startups. So for smaller startups who need office space immediately, but do not have the, let’s say, upfront capex to actually fit out a brand new office and to commit to a to a lease term, let’s say, for three years for a traditional office. So this will be a good target as well. And you know, they can range from one or two people as a business up to maybe like five or ten. And the other type of tenants that would be going to coworking spaces would be and what we call enterprise clients. So they might your HSBCs, they might be your standard charter. They might be these subsidiaries of these banks that focus on let’s say on technology, on media, on digital. And these are the type of teams that would actually take up a lot of space within the coworking, within the coworking operator, which is what Wework has done in the past here in Hong Kong. It’s unfortunate that Wework, the expansion was so quick that I believe in the past year a lot of its expansion had to be halted and had to be held back in the last few months. But I do believe that the demand is still there. We just do not have the same growth in terms of startups as some of the mainland cities like Shenzhen, for example. In terms of the explosive growth of the number of startups, Hong Kong is still lagging behind and so this is one of the major sources of the demand for coworking spaces. So I think, yeah, this is unfortunately, Hong Kong might not be the the most bullish market in terms of coworking spaces.

Darren: How about co-retail really quick? Just because it’s something that I felt a lot people, you know, we know local people who has done that kind of space before and I just want to know co-retail because it seems like no one really tapped into that market or there hasn’t been any boom going on.

Cydon: Right. So co-retail, unfortunately, it started picking up actually about two or three years ago when pop ups became a relatively new concept that people were open to. Unfortunately, again, the Hong Kong market is very traditional and a lot of businesses are very scared to try new concepts. We’re not we’re not a very forward thinking city. So unfortunately, some of these spaces might be empty for many months, even though it’s completely open for these type of co-retail concepts. But again, over the last couple of years, there hasn’t really been a very strong open mind or appetite for this type of space. So this is something that, again, Hong Kong will have to start educating and maybe providing incentives for these type of businesses to try out these type of co-retail concepts and find out for themselves that there are actually benefits to reap from these type of concepts.

Darren: Yeah, after listening to you, in my mind it’s like, I guess it’s time for the landlord to be like “hey, let’s try something new. Let’s help each other,” you know like, you never know it’s still wild wild west in my mind, right? So I have one more question left and then just more about, you know, talk more about something that I’m sure you are aware of, what are some areas in Hong Kong that you think tenants are more attracted to? And what type of new tenants are coming in for the past couple years or possible months or even you think foreseeable couple of months?

Cydon: Right. I think there are two districts in Hong Kong that are the hottest topic whenever it comes to commercial leasing, and that’s Hong Kong Islands East and also Kowloon East. So Hong Kong Island East would be where Tiku type of places. It’s basically where Swire’s kingdom is. Why we call Swire’s kingdom is because Swire basically owns all the commercial property within the entire Tiku Place portfolio, but also the City Plaza portfolio, just one station away. The reason why this is a district to kind of pay attention to is because there are so many new commercial developments there. There are brand new buildings coming out, basically every one or two years in this district, all managed and owned by Swire, all operated by Swire. So you understand that Swire is a very reputable landlord with very, very high quality specifications in all of their buildings. So this is a very, very attractive type of offering for office tenants looking for brand new relocation options. The most important part is its proximity to away from central or Admiralty. I mean, we’re talking a few stations away and even by car it’s only about ten to fifteen minutes max. So it’s a no brainer why there are so many tenants that are moving eastward into this type of district. And some of the major sectors that have moved in here includes legal so some of the law firms that are traditionally in Central and Admiralty actually have moved eastward into Tiku place. Some other traits include some financial institutions that normally would be in Central and Admiralty, but again, have found a place and found the Swire’s Tiku Place portfolio to be a very, very attractive relocation option. The other district would be Kowloon East.

Cydon: So Kowloon East was the second district that I mentioned. The reason why I mentioned Kowloon East is because there are many brand new triple grade A buildings that are being built in that area and landlords are offering very attractive incentives and packages to tenants that are willing to relocate to that area. So Kowloon East more specifically would include Kowloon Bay and Kwun Tong, which are always and always happen very traditionally industrial areas not really known for its offices. So this area actually had many years over the past little while to actually build up a reputation, to have some of the best office buildings in the city. The most important part, too, is the rental difference, really between the options in Highlands East and Kowloon East, because you have central rents that are averaging over HK$100, let’s say per square foot for a grade A building. And then if you move a little eastward into Highlands East, then you’d be paying maybe around HK$50 per square foot, that’s already half the price, and if you move over to districts like Kowloon East, which includes Kowloon Bay and Kwun Tong, you might be slashing that by half again to around let’s say HK$25 even tops, at tops HK$30 a square foot. And again these are brand new office buildings that are very high in specifications. So yeah, I think these are the two districts to really look out for.

Darren: It’s funny because like Swire right, whenever I go there. I’m just like “this whole area is a Swire kingdom,” when you said it’s a Swire kingdom I was like “Yes, that’s true. But I love Swire kingdom – I’m like a fanboy, like their stuff is really good. No, it’s so convenient. Everything around the area is like – I feel like I should get advertising costs from them, but I really like the area. I hope so. I don’t get paid for it for sure. But I think there’s a lot of interesting things that we covered up. What kind of take away would you want to give to the audience before you go?

Cydon: I would say one would be, despite everything that has happened in the past, in the past year, that has really shaken the confidence of a lot of investors and on a lot of people in Hong Kong, especially when it comes to the real estate market, is that there really is no doubt that Hong Kong real estate will still have a lot of value to play in the future because there is still a lot of potential here. The factors I mentioned before, such as lack of land, we also have very ambitious landlords with very deep pockets and also the ever changing, ever evolving, working and living demands of the people that are here in Hong Kong, but also coming in and out of Hong Kong. I mean, these many factories will keep driving many exciting initiatives that I think are going to happen in the commercial real estate space, especially when it comes to new developments and new concepts that will emerge over the next few years. So it is an opportunity and it is up to us, the next generation, to kind of step up and create these opportunities and kind of lead the city with it.

Darren: For sure. That’s a really good take away. Thank you. That was actually really good. So for the audience that wants to know more and reach out to you to learn more about the Hong Kong leasing markets, how would people reach out to you and talk to you and stuff like that?

Cydon: Sure. Yeah. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn. There really should only be one Cydon Choi that works at JLL, so it should be relatively easy to find.

Darren: I don’t think there will be another Cydon Choi out there so I think you’ll be fine.

Cydon: I really hope so. I really don’t think so. You’re right. So yeah, you can feel free to find me on LinkedIn, shoot me a message, or if you have any specific inquiries regarding commercial real estate spaces or any needs. You can also email me at my JLL email, which I’ll provide to Darren afterwards. And also, there are some good resources out there that are from JLL but also from other big agencies such as CBRE, Colliers. And we always will include quarterly reports and we send it to any type of tenants and we send it to the bottom market. I think these are very good resources to learn about different sectors of commercial real estate space as well. They can include office, retail, industrial, if you’re a residential person, yeah these things will be really good resources to kind of reference upon.

Darren: Yeah, if you don’t mind, I think I after this recording I’ll ask you for some kind of links and everything. And then I just want to say thanks a lot man. Thanks for coming in and then thanks a lot for telling me and the audience more about what’s going on because it’s something in our minds like not everyone thinks about real estate every day, but for people who do, you know, they think about it like, “Oh, my God. What’s going on out there? What’s the place to go?” So I really appreciate your time and thanks so much for being part of the show.

Cydon: No problem. Thank you for having me Darren, Cheers.

Darren: Yeah, thanks so much and have a good one then. See you later.

Cydon: You too, take care.

Darren: Bye bye.

Darren:嘿,Cydon。你好嗎?

Cydon:很好。謝謝。

Darren:是的。首先,謝謝你加入。甚至對我自己來說,在房地產行業做買家-商業房地產空間,但我從來就不瞭解,你知道,例如,你在香港的租賃,範圍和發生了什麼。你能告訴我就太好了人們,觀眾-我自己也包括了更多關於你現在做什麼和你對市場的看法。

Cydon:當然。是啊。首先,你想讓我做一個自我介紹,還是直接投入進去?

Darren:當然。

Cydon:是的。好吧,我叫Cydon,謝謝你邀請我,Darren。我一直在商業房地產的空間差不多要到四年了。在香港之前,在我四年前搬到香港之前,我快速移動消費品。囙此,與Unilever、Clorox這樣的公司合作,然後在四年內轉移到香港之前,我在一家名為Colliers的仲介公司開始了商業地產領域的工作。大約兩年後,我加入了仲量聯行(Jones Lang LaSalle)[JLL],也在商業地產商業租賃方面,我今天就來了。

Darren:現在。首先,你能告訴觀眾商業租賃代理的範圍是什麼嗎?你會做些什麼?

Cydon:當然,作為商業租賃經紀人,我們本質上是客戶最負責任的人,從開始到找到辦公室,一直到實際租賃空間和返回租賃條款和條件。我的意思是我們從一個發現開始識別客戶組織的過程。例如,如果你是一家公司或子公司,您的需求是什麼,您需要多少空間,什麼區域,什麼建築質量,離合作夥伴有多近和其他你需要的客戶,需要親近的客戶。所以這些都是蒐索開始時的所有因素然後在整個過程中,我們會幫助您完成短名單。最後挑選出最終的候選建築供我們談判。所以最後的過程是進行真正的談判並最終達成客戶。然後在他們搬進來之後就結束了交易。

Darren:我明白了。所以我相信很多觀眾可能更熟悉住宅區就像他們有自己的房子一樣。你知道,他們有投資,有那種住宅租賃。那麼,當從商業租賃到住宅租賃時,哪些關鍵租賃條款有所不同?

Cydon:這是個好問題。是的,因為我們大多數人對住宅租賃最熟悉,僅僅是從我們的日常接觸。我要說的一個主要區別是合同期限的長短。最常見的契约條款我們在香港發現的住宅租賃通常是一年固定的,然後再加上一年的彈性。以及這只意味著續約。在這個期限之後,你和房東的契约是逐月的商業租賃,通常至少為2-3年,最常見的是3年。從實際情況來看條款、條件和這些契约中的條款,住宅租約,通常大約有三到四頁,將涵蓋大部分條件您將實際登入的。對於商業租賃來說,這要複雜得多,而且有更多的條款和條款包括責任和保護房東的責任。所以它們的範圍甚至可以達到80到100頁。所以我想說,這將是這兩者之間最快的區別。

Darren:我明白了。我懂了。是的,我確信,如果有人在這裡住了這麼長時間,那就不僅僅是一年或兩年,也許最多也就3年、4年或5年、6年了。我想租賃費也會更貴。我確信房東會想瞭解更多關於房客的資訊,以及背後的契約。那麼,在這方面,像一個商業房東[00:05:10]想瞭解房客的一些關鍵事情是什麼?

Cydon:好吧,說實話。第一件最重要的事是房客能否按時付房租。我認為這可能是他們最關心的問題。

Darren:這是最重要的。

Cydon:沒錯。歸根結底都是錢。所以這就是我們說的房客的意思契約。所以這個租戶在市場上,在辦公大樓市場裏有多安全,他們支付租金的能力有多安全。所以,對於房東來說,這絕對是找房客的首要考慮。但是當房東認為是房客。其中一個是租戶檔案。那麼他們的名聲有多好?他們對大樓合適嗎?你知道的,如果他們是銀行客戶?你真的要去一個充滿媒體和科技公司的大樓嗎?那可能不太合適也是。所以租戶的背景和行業性質對房東來說非常重要。還有一件事也是增長。房東確實喜歡房客,他們自然更渴望加班加點他們之所以這樣做,是因為誰不想讓一個最終只想擁有越來越多空間、最終租賃越來越多房屋的租戶入住。所以這也是房東在尋找像福肯這樣的東西時會考慮的一個場景。

Darren: 所以對於房東來說,為了讓他們瞭解承租人是否能够支付或不正確,承租人通常需要什麼樣的檔案向房東提供任何東西,以證明承租人可以向房東付款?

Cydon:對。所以房東最普遍接受的兩個最重要的檔案是商業登記證和商業登記證。這一家,基本上是香港任何類型的商業實體孔會被立案的。另一個是年收益率或A.R.所以這份檔案證明了股票的價值一個企業有多少收入,多少現金流,有多積極。所以這通常是房東將要用於確定承租人是否有足够的契約或足够的能力支付長期租金。所以這將是最重要的。

Darren:如果房客不是香港人,就不一定有B.R。你知道嗎,我相信你比我更有經驗,他們需要提供什麼樣的東西?那些租客可能會說,“嘿,這是我第一次來香港,我真的想要一些類型的東西好的空間,“那麼房東會要求什麼樣的東西來確保,你知道,即使你離總部幾英里遠,如果你對它感到舒適,我還是想租給你。

Cydon:是的。不幸的是,香港房地產業在大量的文書工作和檔案以及非常傳統的郵寄和蓋章管道。這在香港房地產業。囙此,對於即將來港的海外客戶來說,不幸的是,他們真正需要做的是在香港設立辦事處,以便他們真正需要在香港公司注册處注册。所以他們已經在香港注册了。他們能做什麼,不過,因為他們沒有在香港開展業務,所以他們可以利用海外支持,例如,他們有多少現金在他們的公司帳戶裏。如果他們能向房東證明他們是現金充裕的商業租戶,那麼房東可能會考慮繼續租賃,即使沒有具體的香港證明,他們在這裡有帳戶或有任何東西。它在這裡,很多仍然是一種非常古老的系統類型。還是很傳統的。

Darren:我感覺到裡面有些憤怒。我們討論的是文書工作和古董,所以如果是這樣的話,我能感覺到事情有多煩人。

Cydon:沒錯。

Darren:是的。我有很多問題要問。我希望這段視頻能放得更長。我腦子裏有幾個問題。我是說我和你談了很多,但我對房地產總是有疑問。所以你呢知道嗎,我們現在都處在經濟衰退之中。你知道,我相信有很多房客,我們知道有很多人有租客或者他們租了個需要幫助的地方。你認為房東可以做些什麼來幫助房客解决一些問題?

Cydon:所以,不幸的是,就像我之前說的,香港的房東很傳統。通常他們在租賃條件上不太靈活或者我們所說的讓步或救濟。但是在三個月的抗議和數月的日冕病毒事件之後,我們看到的是現在越來越多的房東對我們所說的租房優惠政策更加開放,包括租房减免。所以也許吧暫時降低租金以幫助企業渡過難關。但我們也已經協商過了例如,談判租金延期等條款。租金延期包括延遲支付租金或延遲支付租金某些月份的付款,直到某個特定的時間,你知道,當市場的條件恢復業務。我是說,這個顯然是在個案基礎上完成的。這實際上取決於房東有多靈活,以及他們對房客有多同情情况。但這也取決於租戶的業務性質。如果你是一個半零售租戶,但是,你知道,由於冠狀病毒,你可以沒有人來,也沒有任何收入,我認為這是一個非常有力的理由,可以向房東請求减免租金。但如果你是你可以在家裡工作的公司,你可以在這種病毒的情况下,在抗議的情况下,仍然可以繼續工作並帶來收入,那麼也許房東對你沒有那麼大的靈活性。但我的意思是,除了這些,我想說房東可以在這裡或那裡做一些事情,即使不調整租金。例如,事情甚至是簡單的凍結或控制管理費。管理費是大樓裏每個租戶都必須支付的費用。通常這是以每平方英尺為基礎的,是固定的。像這樣的固定成本,房東也許可以暫時降低或控制它,這樣至少承租人可以在困難時期穩定成本。但我想另一件最重要的事是房東應該繼續維護他們的建築,以確保,你知道,適當數量的人才和適當的交通量仍然在進出大樓,因為這是企業繼續帶來收入的唯一途徑。所以我相信如果房東有能力要做到這一點,或者至少在其中一些方面保持靈活性,那麼在經濟衰退等艱難時期,這將真正幫助一些租戶。

Darren:是的,聽起來你知道,就像過去一年我們在香港的情况一樣,對吧?是啊。這段時間真的很艱難。真的很難。那麼,你呢我知道,房東希望有租金收入和一切,但我認為你需要一些幫助來幫助房客,因為這就是我們在香港的合作方式。你知道,聯手什麼的。所以我知道Covid-19有一個很大的話題。每個人都不確定,因為他們不知道發生了什麼。但除此之外,你覺得租賃市場在這個行業已經有一段時間了,有什麼變化?我只想知道你的意見,因為沒人會說話關於,你知道,經紀方還是租賃方,發生了什麼,你知道,這些事情會變成什麼樣子,甚至是未來的前景,會怎麼樣?

Cydon:對。我是說,這是一個非常非常複雜的情况。市場上有太多的潜在因素是如此多變現在。但我認為有一些事情會延長香港的可持續性——對不起,香港商業房地產市場。其一,即使在任何一種政治或病毒的情况下,例如我們剛剛看到的全球金融危機[00:14:40]和我們之前看到的非典病毒,香港對這類或這類疫情的恢復總是非常快的重大事件。所以我真的不認為柯洛納病毒事件或者抗議事件真的任何不同的東西。如果有的話,這可能是一個更持久的性質。另一方面,香港仍然是重要的商業交易中心活動。許多跨國公司仍然認為香港是亞洲設立總部或亞太區總部的最佳地點之一香港的開發商也非常看好香港的前景。所以不是只有現金充裕,他們才有能力大量投資,並繼續投資於建築和新建房屋都市的項目和新的基礎設施。我的意思是,再加上香港永遠會有土地不足的問題儘管如此,我相信開發人員將能够開發專案,但會有許多、許多更具創造性的方法。其中之一就是現在世界上有很多概念,在不同的都市,某些建築不再是純粹的住宅或用於商業。他們中的一些人,你知道,共生活或是共事。然後他們中的一些會有不同類型的設施,都在同一棟樓裏。所以這是兩種新的香港有潜力探索的概念。而香港有潜力投資興建這些類型的發展項目。所以我認為租賃市場將發展到這樣一個地步:經紀人將不僅僅是在辦公樓裏代理辦公空間。我們可能是銷售一整套不同類型的環境。辦公室可能在一個共同工作空間內,即在一個有共同生活元素或不同類型的建築內具有不同類型健康元素的零售元素,都在一個巨大的生態系統中,更多的環境中。以及我認為租賃市場在不久的將來可能會發展到這一點。

Darren:太酷了。所以我想說的是,資產本身,過去往往是一種非常特殊的類型。例如,一座建築可能是純淨的住宅,純,你知道,零售或其他什麼。但顯然現在有不同類型的房客。有共同工作,共同生活,還有各種各樣的東西生態系統現在,建築似乎有自己的生態系統來互相幫助,所以它不再是一種類型,你知道,(基本),只是一種簡單的資產。就這樣是的,因為我知道每個人都在談論共同工作空間,你知道,整個Wework之類的事情。我肯定是這樣的,你知道,我們只是猜測,什麼是感覺。在你看來,在香港,同居是一個非常大的話題,住房問題之類的。我知道你在商業地產,但有點感動,你覺得怎麼樣行業,比如說在未來幾年裏,你認為這些機制會拯救香港還是在租賃方面幫助香港?

Cydon: 看合作空間,我知道有很多類型的房地產開發商和不同類型的企業嘗試在香港推出合住空間。其中一些成功了,但大多數沒有成功。我相信其中一個主要原因是,對於香港這樣的都市來說,同住的概念還是很陌生的。還有一個事實,是的,土地成本極為昂貴,囙此,無論您居住在哪個居住空間,每平方英尺的成本都將非常昂貴不管怎樣。所以我相信普通的,比如說,細分公寓的成本差真的不會是不同於共同生活的環境。所以,我的意思是,我看到同居,你知道,像飛漲很快就成為潮流?我不這麼認為。我認為,當香港本地人和外籍人士開始對這類概念產生興趣,或者至少對這類概念持開放態度。

Darren:這就是同居,不如在香港一起工作或共同零售。你覺得怎麼樣?

Cydon:我認為在香港,共事肯定有很大的潜力。然而,共同工作空間通常會吸引兩類租戶。一個是創業公司。所以對於較小的初創公司需要立即提供辦公空間,但卻沒有,比如說,前期資本支出,無法實際安裝一個全新的辦公室,並承諾從a到比如說,傳統辦公室的租賃期為三年。所以這也是一個很好的目標。你知道,他們可以是一兩個人做生意大概五到十歲。而其他類型的租戶會去共同工作空間,我們稱之為企業客戶。所以他們可能是你的HSBC,可能是你的Standard Charter (Bank)。他們可能是這些銀行的副公司,專注於科技、媒體、數位。這類團隊實際上會佔用大量的工作空間合作運營商,這是我們過去在香港所做的工作。不幸的是,我們的擴張如此之快,以至於我相信在過去的一年裏,它的許多擴張都不得不停止,並且在過去的幾個月裏不得不被遏制。但我相信需求仍然存在。我們只是在創業方面沒有像深圳這樣的內地都市那樣增長。在就創業公司數量的爆炸式增長而言,香港仍然落後,囙此這是共同辦公空間需求的主要來源之一。所以我認為,是的,這是不幸的,香港可能不是最牛市的共同工作空間。

Darren:那麼合作零售真的很快嗎?只是因為這是我感覺到很多人,你知道,我們知道,當地人誰做過這種空間,我只想知道聯合零售,因為似乎沒有人真正進入這個市場,或者沒有任何繁榮。

Cydon: 對。所以,不幸的是,聯合零售在兩三年前就開始流行起來了,那時彈出式廣告成為一個相對較新的概念,人們對此持開放態度。不幸的是,香港市場非常傳統,很多企業都非常害怕嘗試新概念。我們不是我們不是一個很好的前鋒思考之城。不幸的是,這些空間中的一些可能會空置數月,即使它對這些類型的聯合零售概念。但是,在過去的幾年裏,人們並沒有真正的開放思想和”胃口”對於這種類型的空間。囙此,香港必須再次開始教育,並可能提供激勵措施,鼓勵這類企業嘗試這些類型的聯合零售概念,他們自己會發現,實際上從這些類型的概念中可以獲益。

Darren:是啊,聽了你的話,我想是時候讓房東說“嘿,我們試試新的吧。讓我們互相幫助,“你知道嗎,你永遠不知道在我的腦海裏,這還是一片荒蕪的西部,對吧?所以我還有一個問題要問,你知道,多談一些我相信你知道的事情,有哪些方面你認為租客更喜歡香港?在過去的幾年或幾個月,甚至可能會有什麼樣的新房客入住你認為可以預見的幾個月?

Cydon:對。我想香港有兩個區是最熱門的話題談到商業租賃,這是香港群島東部和九龍東部。所以港島東邊會是提庫式的地方很多地方。這基本上就是太古王國所在的地方。我們之所以稱太古王國,是因為太古基本上擁有整個提庫的所有商業地產Place portfolio,還有City Plaza portfolio,僅一站之遙。之所以這是一個值得關注的地區,是因為有這樣的地方那裡有許多新的商業開發專案。在這個地區,基本上每一到兩年就會有嶄新的建築問世,都是由太古,都是太古經營的。所以你知道太古是一個非常有信譽的房東,他們所有的建築都有非常非常高的質量規範。囙此,這是一種非常非常有吸引力的服務類型,適用於尋找全新搬遷選擇的辦公室租戶。最重要的是它離中環或金鐘較近。我是說,我們在幾站以外的地方即使是開車,最長也只有10到15分鐘。所以不難想像為什麼會有這麼多租客向東進入這類地區。以及一些主要部門已經轉移在金鐘有一些律師事務所搬到了這裡地點。其他一些特徵還包括一些通常位於中環和金鐘的金融機構,但它們又找到了一個位置,並且發現太古的Taikoo Place組合是一個非常非常有吸引力的搬遷選擇。另一個區是東部。所以九龍東是我提到的第二個地區。我之所以提到東九龍是因為在那個地區有許多嶄新的甲等建築,房東們提供的非常多對願意搬遷到該地區的租戶提供有吸引力。所以九龍東區更具體地說包括九龍灣和觀塘,這兩個地方一直都是非常傳統的工業區,並不真正為人所知辦公室。所以這個地區其實有很多年過去的一點點時間,實際上建立了一個聲譽,有城裡最好的辦公大樓。最重要的一點,也是租金的差异,實際上是在高地東部的選擇和九龍東,因為你們的中心租金平均超過100港元,比如說甲級建築每平方英尺的租金。然後如果如果你向東移動一點到高地東部,那麼你可能要支付每平方英尺50港元左右的價格,這已經是價格的一半,如果你搬到像九龍東,包括九龍灣和觀塘,你可能會把這個數位再削减一半,比如說最高25港元每平方英尺30港元。這些都是全新的辦公樓,規格非常高。所以是的,我認為這是兩個值得注意的地區。

Darren:這很有趣,因為就像太古,每當我去那裡。我就像“這整個地區是一個太古王國”,當你說它是一個太古王國時,我就像“是的,這是真的。但我喜歡太古王國-我就像一個粉絲,喜歡他們的東西真的很好。不,太方便了。周圍的一切都像-我覺得我應該得到廣告他們的費用,但我真的很喜歡這個地方。我希望如此。我拿不到錢。但我認為我們掩蓋了很多有趣的事情。你想在離開之前給觀眾什麼樣的建議?

Cydon: 我想說的是,儘管在過去的一年裏發生了很多事情,但這確實動搖了很多投資者和香港很多人的信心,尤其是當說到房地產市場,毫無疑問,香港房地產仍然有很大的價值可以發揮因為這裡還有很多潜力。我之前提到的因素,比如土地缺乏,我們也有很有野心的地主香港人的財力非常雄厚,他們的工作和生活需求也在不斷變化,不斷變化,不斷變化離開香港。我的意思是,這些工廠將繼續推動商業地產領域的許多令人興奮的計畫,尤其是在未來幾年內出現的新發展和新概念。所以這是一個機會,這取決於我們,下一代人,要站出來創造這些機會,並以此引領都市。

Darren:當然。這真是個不錯的建議。謝謝您。那真的很好。囙此,對於那些想瞭解更多、接觸到你、瞭解更多香港租賃市場的觀眾來說,人們會如何接觸你並與你交談之類的事情?

Cydon:當然。是啊。我是說,你可以在LinkedIn上找到我。真的應該只有一個Cydon Choi在JLL工作,所以應該相對容易找到。

Darren:我不認為會有另一個Cydon Choi,所以我想你會沒事的。

Cydon:我真的希望如此。我真的不這麼認為。你說得對。所以,你可以在LinkedIn上找到我,給我發個簡訊,或者如果你有任何關於商業地產空間或任何需求的具體詢問。你也可以在我的JLL郵箱給我發郵件,那之後我會提供給Darren。此外,還有一些很好的資源來自JLL,但也來自其他大型機构,如CBRE、Colliers。我們總是會包括季度報告,我們會發送它發給任何類型的房客,我們把它送到最低價市場。我認為這些都是很好的資源來瞭解不同行業的商業地產空間以及。它們可以包括辦公、零售、工業,如果你是一個居住的人,是的,這些東西將是非常好的參攷資源。

Darren:是的,如果你不介意的話,我想在錄完這段錄音之後,我會要求你提供一些連結和所有的東西。然後我只想說謝謝,夥計。謝謝你的光臨然後感謝您告訴我和觀眾更多的關於正在發生的事情,因為這是我們心中的一件事,不是每個人每天都在思考房地產,但對於那些這樣做的人,你他們會這樣想,“哦,天哪。外面發生什麼事了?去什麼地方?”所以我真的很感謝你的時間,非常感謝你能參加這個節目。

Cydon:沒問題。謝謝你邀請我,Darren,乾杯。

Darren:是的,非常感謝,祝你玩得愉快。回頭見。

Cydon: 你也是,保重。

Darren:再見。


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