In recent years, there are a lot of talks with the Cambodia real estate market. We want to give an introductory video to allow overseas investors to know about it and discover where the opportunities are.
In today’s episode, James Hodge introduces the Cambodian real estate industry, which is possibly one of the least popular markets in Southeast Asia.
How does the Cambodian property market differ from its neighbouring states?
Which areas are the main magnetism to attract investors?
What difference does a young population make?
What are the impacts of dollarization?
How is the market going to be in the upcoming years?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:
Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.
You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.
No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.
Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
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[Transcript]
Darren: So hey, James, welcome to the show.
James: Hi. Great to be here.
Darren: Yeah. So I think it was Tom Parker from Colliers that suggested me to reach out to you, because I’m trying to find someone from Cambodia
James: to be speaking today.
Darren: Well, actually, I think he’s getting on the show next week. And you know, it’s a pleasure because I told you before the phone, I’ve never been to Cambodia before. I don’t know what it’s like so it’s very easy for me to come up with questions that all the audience might be wondering as well. So before we go into the questions, right, would you mind telling the audience about yourself and your work?
James: Yeah, sure. So I’ve been here now in Cambodia for four years. I’m originally from the UK. I have a commercial real estate degree. And I was working in commercial real estates in just north of London for several years before coming out to Cambodia. So I’ve been here with CBRE now since 2016. I lead the advisory and transaction services team. So the commercial brokerage side of our business, as well as looking after research, consulting, and the property management departments, so quite a broad range of different skills that sit under me. And I get a pretty good overview of the market, different projects, different clients get to see a lot of Cambodia. So it’s very exciting role. And what we find generally with Cambodia is that there’s huge amount of opportunity, just finding it, understanding it in depth, and then really delivering it in this market.
Darren: So, you know, like some audience and myself, as I mentioned before, may not know much about the different regions in Cambodia. Would you mind if you could briefly describe the city and how is it made up, and what are some few areas that overseas investors tend to look into?
James: So Phnom Penh it’s the capital of Cambodia. Phnom Penh itself has got a number of different districts within it, but really would characterize these four districts, which are the traditional residential and commercial heart of the city. So we have the CBD location, which is around the Dawn Penn District, which is also the tourist hub of the city. And then we have residential districts which are clustered close to that, and they are quite high rise in nature. So we’ve got a number of condominium projects. And those traditionally have been where international investors have focused their attention to the condominium sector here in Cambodia is quite accessible for foreigners. They’re allowed to own them on an effective freehold as it’s called a strata title. And then now what we’re seeing as a bit of diversification in terms of geography and asset types, which are available to foreigners here, so the secondary data streaks on the edge of the city are becoming more popular. We see more affordable and mid range projects out on the edge of Phnom Penh. And you can find some really attractive projects with great pricing in those locations and the amenities and facilities are also improving in those districts. They’re becoming quite attractive to both investors and to Cambodian buyers. And we’re also seeing diversification in the asset classes. So we’ve seen a couple of strata title retail projects which are available to foreign buyers. And we’re also seeing quite a number of what we call strata title office, which is like a condo FIDE office building where you can buy sections of the building principally for investment purposes, but increasingly also for own occupation here.
Darren: So you know, the market has become a very hot topic, even among my circles, a lot of people would keep telling me that they have bought something from Cambodia, and then a lot of people look into it. And what’s the reason behind this trend? And how do you think it’s gonna evolve during this couple years?
James: Sure. So I think when we look across Asia now you look at Cambodia’s neighboring countries, Vietnam and Thailand in particular, you see that those markets have developed significantly and are heading towards more of a developed nation status similar to what we see in Hong Kong and Singapore and Malaysia, where the pricing and the development status of those cities has already got quite some way beyond where we are in Cambodia. So here we’re more of an emerging market. That presents a number of opportunities. So the cities still growing very rapidly. The supply of condominiums in actuality is not too great. So there are still opportunities in terms of the way that people are living and how they occupy residential buildings. They’re still very much tied to landed property and villas shophouse format. But that is changing. Though as young generations come through, and their spending power grows, their lifestyle aspirations change, then they are starting to look at renting or even buying condominium units or living in serviced apartment blocks, as well as that the commercial aspects of the city are growing very rapidly. And Cambodia has been growing at 7% a year, on average since the global financial crisis. So a decade of very sustained very high growth. And that has really caused quite a big change, both in terms of the way that people are living as locals, but also in the economy of the country and the businesses that are here and the type of people that are attracting from overseas to live and invest in Cambodia. So number of different drivers behind these trends, you can still pick up apartments here for less than 100,000 US dollars. Their pricing is pretty reasonable. The offering is becoming more and more competitive from the developers and the quality with what is being built and designed here is definitely improving quite rapidly. So I think investors are seeing something which is a little bit untapped, a little bit different as a way of diversifying and just doing something a little bit different and the risk is for most other Asian investors is not too high because the the price of accessing this market is quite low. All the assets here, every real estate transaction is done in US dollars, which can also be quite an attractive proposition for many.
Darren: So even for the locals, right when they’re doing transactions, are they also using US dollars or their local dollars currency?
James: Yeah, the economy here is incredibly, highly dollarized. So about 85% 90% of transactions occur in US dollars. So if we go to Starbucks on the street, I pay in US dollars and the prices is usually quoted in all shops in US dollars, there is a bit of a push towards D dollarization but that’s going to take some time. And certainly for now, every price that you see whether it’s rent or buy, will be in US dollars, and most bank accounts will be in US dollars as well.
Darren: So what’s the relationship like among countries because Cambodia’s situated in the middle? And then how does Cambodia set for potential growth in terms of like relationship among the different countries?
James: Sure. So Cambodia is incredibly well aligned with China at the moment. They’re very good as allies and we see a lot of investment flow between the two, so Cambodia is an important ally of China and vice versa. So that has been the mainstay of investment moving over the last last three years, but also there’s a huge amount of diversification. We have a lot of Singaporean projects. We have a number of high profile projects from developers in Hong Kong. We see a number of Korean, Japanese, Malaysian investment too as well as from Europe and the US. So it’s quite diverse. Cambodia is typically pragmatic in the way that it looks at attracting foreign investment and likes to go out and try and draw it in from multiple different sources and is very welcoming to overseas investment from various countries.
Darren: So to give a better idea to the audience regarding tendency, how’s it like to live in Cambodia since you’ve been there for a couple couple years now? And then how’s the culture like for both local and expats? Like would you mind painting a picture for us on that regard?
James: Sure. It’s a great place to be living. The opportunities out here are vast. All of the markets are growing very quickly and largely untapped with a lot of innovation. And the population is very young. So there’s a lot of new technology adoption, which is helping Cambodia to leapfrog certain steps in development. For example, things like cashless payment and blockchain are quite common here. Now as part of everyday life, you do see these things coming to the fore more and more and it changes every six months, with the new innovation which is coming and being adopted by the by the local youth. They surprise me all the time. I feel like a bit of a dinosaur sometimes. And in terms of lifestyle, the number of things to do, shopping malls to go to, places to hang out with friends, the cow phase bars, restaurants, that scene really is improving and growing over time so it’s a really good amenities now for anyone who’s living here. The apartments that we’ve got in the city generally have good facilities as well. And work opportunities are huge. There’s a whole range of different things to look at doing here. Yeah, so lifestyle is, I would say work hard, play hard.
Darren: That’s good. How would you suggest differently to an investor that are, you know, planning to self use or investment only?
James: Typically the foreign investors have stayed in the core central districts, and they will generally go from the grange or high end. And that has been driven by the fact that expatriates who live and occupy the majority of high rise residential as to be condominium format, they have lived close to their place of work in the center of the city. We do see some changes to that now, as transport solutions get better; roads, in particular improving, we are seeing some diversification of wax patches would choose to live and that really is because of the proliferation as well as as road transporters. The amenities are available on their doorstep, and particularly in the north of the city and in the future. We think also to the South where there are a number of retail amenities they are coming up. But typically so far for investors it’s really been the core center of the city. For those looking to buy to live so they would be occupying themselves I think location is generally less of a concern for them, they may be more tied to how quickly is it for me to get to my specific place of work, but they are more likely to be looking at things like the amenities and the property management side of the asset and really getting into the depths of the developers track record, which is something for everyone that we would say is a key thing to be looking at here.
Darren: I see like, what kind of suggestions or tips do you have for the audience? Is there anything they should be aware of when investing in the Cambodian real estate market?
James: Yeah, so like I just mentioned, property management is critical. So the market here is really young. And it’s important to make sure that the person who’s building your future home or your investment, understands and really has thought about and looked at how they’re going to manage that building for the long term. As well as that, just checking up on the developers dry record, what have they built before? Are you satisfied with the quality of that? Is there any additional assurances that you need? One thing to note here in particular is regarding funding. So the majority of foreign purchases, they would be looking at spending with cash. And often that would be tied to the construction progress of the project. Funding for foreign based investors from banks in Cambodia can be a little bit difficult to obtain. It’s not very common to see the banks are really only just getting into lending into the high rise, residential market. So that can be a little bit challenging to obtain if you do need to mortgage financing for a purchase.
Darren: I see. So you know, like obviously COVID is a big topic. And then how did the COVID-19 impact the market? And where are the opportunities for investor during times like this?
James: Yep. So COVID-19 has certainly had some impacts. And we’ve been very lucky here in Cambodia. So far we’ve only had 141 cases today. I’m sure that will have changed by the time this comes out, but it has been very well contained and controlled to date by the government so their policies have worked. In regards to restricting inflow of tablets, however, it has caused some disruption to the market. Of course, we’ve seen quite a large number of proportion of expatriates leave the country to go back home during this period of time, and that has weakened the rental market. So we’ve seen quite steep falls over the last three months in terms of rent somewhere between five but more in the service department sector. So that has placed some pressure on the pricing of condominium units because of the obviously the function between the the rent and the price. But we have seen some developers in particular responding with some quite attractive deal. So it’s a good time to be looking. There are a number of projects that have launched new phases over the last three months or launched new projects and they have been able to offer quite nice attractive pricing options. But over all the condominium sector pricing has not adjusted significantly yet. We’re just waiting to see over the next three months, how things transpired so far and things look to be relatively robust compared to some of our neighboring markets.
Darren: I see so for the interview so far we covered a lot about residential so what are some other asset types, investment strategies, and areas that have shown potential so far?
James: Yeah, so in terms of locations, CM Reap and Scenic Villa other locations which are looked at, principally for investment here, and Centreville, over the last few years has been a favorite of Chinese investors. CM Reap is more of an emerging investment location. And that has heavily in the past focused on the hospitality because of its proximity to Angkor Wat. So we’re seeing some diversification of the offering in terms of the asset types. Few developers here are offering types like condotel. There’s a couple of condotel projects here in Phnom Penh. And some of them have got attracted branded operators, or like citadines behind them, which is quite an interesting difference that someone might look at if they’re purely looking for investment rather than own occupation. There’s a few projects down in smaller towns on the coast as well. So there’s a town to the south of Cambodia, it’s called Kampot. And there are some hospitality focused projects which are available for foreign purchases in that location, which look amazing, very attractive design and good quality is kind of an emerging investment type. Typically for Cambodians, they love to invest in land, so we do see quite a lot of strength in the land market. Still, despite the impacts of COVID-19 and the returns on land prices here in Phnom Penh can be significant. So that has been a very lucrative market for many over the last few years. Beyond that we- and I touched on a little bit earlier, there are a few strata title, retail and strata title office markets, if someone is looking to diversify into the commercial sector. In terms of largest scale commercial investment opportunities, hotels dominate that sector here in Cambodia, we see a few branded operators and the owner looking to dispose. However, in the other sectors, a lot of transactions happen off market. So it’s good to have a chat with someone who understands the Phnom Penh real estate market and has good connections. They will be able to source opportunities that maybe are not so apparent to someone who’s looking for a larger opportunity.
Darren: That’s good. What kind of, you know, like well, obviously we can go on with more and more questions, but what kind of take away would you want the audience to have from this video?
James: I think Cambodia is one of those countries that is creeping up people’s radars at the moment. There’s a huge amount of opportunity here, it’s a little bit different to some of our neighboring countries. So perhaps as overseas investor, Vietnam and Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, in the past would have caught more attention. But the dynamics and the demographics of Cambodia has strengthened GDP growth. The political stability that we’ve had here for such a long time, creates some quite interesting dynamics for the future, and might be an appealing option for diversification and the pricing structures. The general asset pricing is quite affordable generally, so can be quite an accessible market as well.
Darren: I see, and, you know, for people who want to maybe know more about the Cambodia real estate market or, you know, talk more about different work, how would we suggest people to reach out to you and talk to you more about that?
James: Yeah, sure. So you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. Otherwise do email at CBRE so [email protected] Those are probably the best ways. I’m sure that they can reach out to you as well, Darren, and you’ll put them in touch. Yeah, very happy to have a chat as are my team here at CBRE in Cambodia, and our website has got lots of resources on there around investments and some opportunities, of course. So CBRE.com.kh is our web address. We do lots of research work and we put out a lot of webinar content too so if someone’s interested in a certain topic, there will usually be an opportunity over the coming weeks or months to find out more about that if we haven’t already. We have quite an extensive YouTube channel. So there’s lots of webinar content on there as well.
Darren: Oh, for sure. I’ll put everything in the show notes. And even the YouTube because I didn’t know that CBRE has a YouTube channel so that is kind of cool. And then I want to say thanks for your time, because I think this interview is very, like condensed and very precise. So I really like that and I’m sure the audience will learn a lot from you for this whole video.
James: Thank you. It’s been a great opportunity to chat to you and talk to you more about this market, which I’m so passionate about.
Darren: That’s good. Anyway, thanks a lot for your time, and then hopefully there is part two next time then. Thank you.
James: Great. Thanks, Darren bye.
Darren: Talk to you later, bye bye.
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Darren ：嗨，James，歡迎來到節目。
James：嗨。很高興來到這裡。
Darren ：是的。我想是Colliers的Tom parker 建議我聯系你，因為我想找一個在柬埔寨的人。
James：今天來分享。
Darren ：好吧，事實上，我[00:00:20]想他下周也要上節目了。你知道，很高興，因為我在電話前告訴過你，我以前從未去過柬埔寨。我不知道是什麼樣的，所以我很容易提出所有觀眾都會想知道的問題。在我們開始提問之前，你介意告訴聽眾關於你自己和你的工作？
Businesses always revolve around one common principle, and that is demand and supply. The Real Estate sector is no different. In recent years, Vietnam’s rising opportunities have drawn many outsiders into the country, which in turn increased the demand for both commercial and residential property.
Vietnam has been a hot topic in the industry lately, which is why today James Lai joins us to give you a deeper understanding of the Vietnam Real Estate market.
Why invest in Vietnam Real Estate?
How does Vietnam compare to other Southeast Asian property markets?
What are the rules for foreign investors?
Which areas to look into as a foreign investor?
Are there any risks involved? What are they?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:
Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.
You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.
No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.
Terminology:
One belt one road policy: The one belt one road policy (OBOR), now known as the Belt and Road Initiative(BRI) is a strategy initiated by President Xi Jin Ping of PRC. The main concept is to develop the country’s economy and relation with other countries by helping each other grow together. As of now, the one belt one road project involves more than 70 countries across the globe.
Flipping Real Estate: The term flipping refers to a specific strategy when it’s associated with real estate. This is when someone buys a property not to use it but to resell them for profit instead.
US-China trade war: The US-China trade war is an economic clash between the two countries which started in 2018 when US President Trump decided to impose tariffs on China as he believed them to be stealing intellectual property from the US.
SST (Sales and Service Tax): SST is composed of two elements; sales tax and service tax. Unlike GST (goods and service tax), which has a wider range, SST is a single staged tax system levied only on the service industry and manufacturers.
PST ( Provincial Sales Tax): PST is a type of tax service, which is imposed when a good or service is obtained by purchase and is brought inside a certain Province. The charges vary depending on the Provinces.
Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
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Darren: So hey, James. Hey, how’s it going?
James: I’m good, I’m good.
Darren: That’s good. Yeah, thanks for coming to the show. And then it’d be great if the audience could know more about you like, would you mind telling me and the audience more about yourself and then your work.
James: All right. Okay, so I’m James and I actually run a family fund on behalf of my office, my family, and I’m focused on investing in real estate across the globe, and we have a footprint in UK, Canada, Hong Kong as well as Vietnam right now. So Chris right now is in Vietnam, due to the growth and opportunity we see. And in the past few years we have been, I have been actively investing in UK as the sub-divided house, so we have a basket of real estate in Manchester, Birmingham as well as London. Our strategy basically is to maximize our return. So, we have achieved more than 50% per annum, returning in the past three years in UK. So right now, we see the opportunity is in Vietnam. So we are in the process of building our portfolio in Vietnam. And so far, in terms of use, we have already achieved 8% to 9% per annum just on pure rental. We haven’t started flipping yet. And we haven’t sold any stock yet because we see a lot of opportunities coming up in Vietnam.
Darren: I see. Yeah, because I think we talked about before, I really want to know more about Vietnam. So I’m sure we both know, right, in the recent years, a lot of oversea investors, especially Asian investors, are looking to Vietnam real estate and they’re very interested. Can you explain a bit more on like, how the trends got started?
James: Right. The trend actually started in 2015 July when Vietnam government allowed foreign investors to buy real estate in residential. Basically they allow overseas investor to buy residential projects in Vietnam. So that’s where the trend started. And, actually at that time where the ECP, Ho Chi Minh city like Hanoi, they went up a lot. So during the time actually Ho Chi Minh went up a lot in D one D two, D one D seven and that kind of area they went up a lot. And in the past one year due to the trade war between Hong Kong and new between China and US. There’s a lot of manufacturers going to Vietnam, to send up industrial plots and stuff like that. And there’s a strong demand for living, especially in northern Vietnam say Hanoi and horrifying and that Kind of area. So that drove another wave of demand for investment in Hanoi. So recently we are starting our seminars in Hong Kong, on our Vietnam projects, we see a lot of people realize the fact that they control the COVID-19 dynamic very well in Vietnam. So they have developed the confidence to invest in Vietnam as well.
Darren: Yeah, I see. Yeah, it seems like there’s a lot of things happening obviously before and after COVID. And actually for the audience who might not understand about Vietnam, what are some cities areas or type of assets that oversea investor tend to be interested in when it comes to Vietnam real estate?
James: It’s basically in key cities like Ho Chi Minh or Hanoi and some of the secondary cities we seldom hear about it, but mostly in the core areas in Ho Chi Minh D One or Hanoi in around Westlake and mining area and stuff like that.
Darren: Yes, I see and for those areas it sounds kind of odd but is there any areas that you think that is a bit overrated?
James: Right now I think Ho Chi Minh is overrated for sure because we see some of the Hong Kong developers like Hong Kong land they have projects in D one in Ho Chi Minh. They are selling for like 5-6000 per square feet. So it’s actually- we see it is quite overpriced because we can already buy another apartment in Bangkok and maybe in Hong Kong, some of the old apartments you can trade around 5000 square feet already. So we see the whole shipment is a bit overpriced. While other areas like Hanoi, we still see a beautiful opportunity around the area especially because our strategy is just to invest in the key areas and in the key cities.
Darren: Yeah, I see I see. So, when it comes to investing in Vietnam right, for the investment process or the norm from different cities, countries what are some things that investors need to be aware of, when it comes to that?
James: Actually, the reason why we started to invest in Vietnam is because the taxation and purchasing process is very simple. Say for example, all we need to do is to sign the offer and we can just go to the coast of Vietnam inside the former SMP and the Taxes, we don’t have any capital gain; we don’t have any PST, SST and stuff like that. And this stage Vietnam government is still encouraging investors from outside Vietnam, so they don’t have any taxation on foreign investor yet. While obviously, the process is very smooth. We just spend a weekend and sign the SMP and that’s really it.
Darren: I see. So, you know, like I heard a lot of people kept talking about how it’s very hard to get your money out of Vietnam after selling the real estate. Is that true? And also, what are some potential risks and for oversea investors that might not be aware of when it comes to investing real estate in Vietnam?
James: Okay, so we basically have experience on assisting our investors to get money out from Vietnam and as long as it’s properly taxed, and the money is record clean, then there is no problem for the money to get off from Vietnam. So, yeah, we obviously we heard about a lot about people complaining how difficult money can get out from Vietnam but in practice, we don’t see any problem with that.
Darren: I see. Okay, so in my head, right because like for the past couple years, like I think someone asked me about investing in Vietnam as well. And I now looking back it’s kind of missed out because there’s a huge trend as you mentioned before, there are a lot of manufacturers from China moving to Vietnam and whole ecosystems are popping out. So do you think that’s still a relevant thing for the next couple years? And then what do you think are the outlook opportunities like what is the mystic pieces coming together that you feel has opportunity and a reason why should invest in Vietnam.
James: Okay, it’s all about supply and demand, right? Because there’s a population growth with where the population has a good affordability as well as the demand for living. There’s no doubt the real estate price will go up. So we already see the trend in the past six to 12 months in areas like Hanoi because they are situated in the capital of Vietnam and also in northern Vietnam rich close by China, and previously they have benefits by one belt one road policy by China which is the first stop outside China. So there’s a lot of infrastructure coming in and Hanoi say that metro, they have demand for manufacturers around Hanoi and the price is still cheap around the area. So we do fall costs in the coming two to three years. The price, the real estate pricing in Hanoi will still have room to go up.
Darren: I see. I see. So for people who are curious because a lot of people will be like, “Hey, I just want to invest in Southeast Asia,” and obviously you’re pro Vietnam. How would you describe like, if you’re a Hong Kong investors or any investors in Southeast Asia? How would you describe different parts of Southeast Asia why you should invest in there why you shouldn’t and vice versa, like I want to know your point of view on that.
James: Okay, so as a family fund, I have always been questioned why we have to always look around. So I myself, always look around countries in Southeast Asia before I go get into Vietnam, I actually studied markets like Thailand, like Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan, and we always look into these kind of areas, but the problem with other areas is either the price never go up, or they already oversupply. Say for example, in Thailand, there’s a lot of small units coming in, in the market and especially in Bangkok, so it’s a bit of an oversupply there and the population is quite old. Why Vietnam is especially attractive to us because the population is young. And there’s a lot of rich people, and we see people getting rich and richer. So, obviously, if we’re talking about 1000-2000 per square foot in in Vietnam, in the core city and a really good area that’s an opportunity right now to get into.
Darren: Yes, I see. So it sounds like you’re among- Obviously you do different areas like I mentioned before UK, Canada and Vietnam. So it sounds like your focus is going to be mainly on Vietnam. And so I’m also curious too like what’s your next couple years plan for your funds because I want to know more about your projects coming up.
James: Right because doing this COVID-19 pandemic, our family fund actually learnt a lesson. Especially when we are trying to invest in UK and Canada. Because Canada and UK, they protect more. The problem we encountered right now in UK is some of the tenants we can’t take rent from them. And the government has already imposed measures where we can’t ask for out stamp, we can’t ask for it, we can’t sue them, we can’t kick them out because of COVID-19. And this is only one of them. One of the problems we faced in the past few months, but more importantly is we see we can’t kick out tenants that are right with the contracts fine. So that’s a huge problem for us because we don’t have any protection from the tenant because we don’t have a contract in place so they can actually consume our unit, depreciate our products. That’s not a good thing to us. And at the same time, we need to pay for mortgage and this is something we always need to bear in mind when we are investing in a mature market like UK and Canada. When it comes to an extreme, the case is going to vary extremely, we have a huge problem with our cash flow. While we see what we see in Vietnam, if the tenants stop paying rent, we have a system from the lawyer and a police to kick the tenant out no matter how the situation is. So this is more protection to investors like me. So, this is the problem we see. This is how we compare different markets right now.
Darren: I think it’s very fair. I mean, like, it doesn’t sound great, but then for a fun point of view, you might have to do some kind of measure like that. So no, it’s kind of interesting because like from every landlord or every investor they have different points of view. And then you know, whatever works, right. So like, I think I have one more last question in my head. So for someone who wants to learn more about, you know, become like a fund, you know, for example you help with family funds and stuff like that, what are some things that you do every single day that, you know, no one really talks because no one really talks about like, “Hey, if I’m a professional real estate investor, like a fund, what’s my daily look like?” I’m just curious about that.
James: Okay, so I basically receive projects every week, every day, from different sources, like agencies, bankers, and all that and all I need to do is to go through tech projects and make comparables that is very important, especially when the agency tells you “Oh you have like 7%-8% yield and you need to go into the area and find out is it really, that you’re talking about debits, especially because we are living in the internet era right now. It’s very easy to find out whether a statement is true or not right. So, whether the developer is reputable whether the information provided by the agent is true or not it’s actually very easy to find out. So what I practice myself in the past many years is to quickly scan through all the floor plans, all the projects very quickly and come up with an idea whether the project is reliable or not, that is very important. So once it’s reliable, we can talk about it on the next stage. We are going to meet and we’re gonna see if we’re gonna try that kind of area and all that yes.
Darren: Yeah, because like, I’m sure everyday, you’d be like, okay, “Is it just five or ten different investment coming to your table” and you’d be like, okay, it can be not what it said, it can be right or wrong. This is the kind of art that takes a long time to experience. To have someone like you, every single day, just practice and practice with practice. And 1000 units at once right, so it’s gonna be tricky. So I think that like the questions, I think it’s pretty good. Thanks for your answers. And then what what kind of takeaway would you like the audience know like one takeaway from this video?
James: Um, I think like I said before, Vietnam is still up, especially after the COVID-19 pandemic, we see way more opportunity in Vietnam, in the coming many months in all years in Vietnam. So obviously, we have seminars, we have events every week in Hong Kong. So if there’s an NPC interested they can come to me and we can we can have a quick chat about it.
Darren: Yeah, so for the call to action, right, like how would people try to find more or learn more about you or or meet up with you. You know, how would they find more about these events that you guys are hosting.
James: Oh, so, every week we have seminars in NorthPoint, our hotel. Basically my partner is doing the event Louis Chiu. And we just talked about right now, the latest project we have is our fund. So we have set fund last year and we have already purchased residential slash commercial projects in Hanoi and we are trying to sell the project right now. So I was very fortunate after the COVID-19 measures has been relaxed. In Hong Kong we have received very good reactions. But we still have units available in the project. So if any interested party can come to us.
Darren: That would be great. Okay, so I’ll add everything in the show notes, and then people can find you through the links. And then I want to say thank you for your time because like, I know, it’s a lot of time for you to do all that kind of stuff. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for coming in.
James: Thank you very much. Thank you. You’re eyes are a little bit sweaty, are you okay? Are you tired?
Darren: No, just a lot of interviews, a lot of interviews with different people. So like, I’ve been kind of thinking about questions and it’s not easy, right? And at the same time is that like, we just want more people know more about real estate and what to do. And then I think that thinking about know, like, what kind of questions people are interested in, what are some kind of things that people want to know more so this is what Denzity is about. So it’s fine, but thanks for asking.
James: Yeah, yeah you look tired man, but anyway take some rest. Take care man.
Darren: Yeah, have a good one then. Thank you.
James: Thank you so much, bye!
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Darren ：嘿，James。嘿，怎麼樣？
James：我很好，我很好。
Darren ：那很好。是的，謝謝你來參加節目。如果觀眾能更多地瞭解你，那就太好了，你能告訴我和觀眾更多關於你自己和你的工作嗎。
Darren ：我明白了。是的，因為我想我們以前談過，我真的很想多瞭解越南。所以我相信我們都知道，對吧，近幾年來，很多海外投資者，特別是亞洲投資者，都把目光投向了越南房地產他們非常感興趣。你能解釋一下，趨勢是怎麼開始的嗎？
James：對。這一趨勢實際上始於2015年7月，當時越南政府允許外國投資者投資住宅區。基本上，他們允許海外投資者在越南購買住宅項目。所以那是]趨勢開始的地方。而且，實際上在當時的ECP，胡志明市像河內，他們漲了很多。所以在這段時間裏，胡志明在D 1 D 2，D 1 D 7以及類似的地方上漲了很多他們花了很多錢。而在過去的一年中，由於香港和新中國之間的貿易戰還有我們。有很多製造商去越南，把工業用地之類的東西送到越南去。以及生活需求旺盛，尤其是在越南北部，比如河內的那種地方。囙此，這又推動了對河內投資的新一波需求。最近我們在香港開始了關於越南項目的研討會，我們看到了很多人意識到，他們在越南很好地控制了COVID-19的動態。所以他們有也培養了投資越南的信心。
Darren ：是的，我明白了。是啊，在喬維德之前和之後似乎有很多事情發生。實際上，對於那些可能不瞭解越南的觀眾來說，海外投資者在越南房地產方面會對哪些都市、地區或資產類型感興趣？
Darren ：我明白了。好吧，在我的腦海裏，是的，就像過去幾年，我覺得有人問過我在越南投資的事。我現在回頭看，這有點錯過了，因為正如你之前提到的，有一個巨大的趨勢，有很多來自中國的製造商轉移到越南，整個生態系統都在湧現。所以你認為這對未來幾年來說還是一件相關的事情嗎？那麼，你認為未來的機會是什麼，比如什麼是神秘的原因聚集在一起，你覺得有機會，為什麼應該投資越南。
Darren ：我覺得這很公平。我的意思是，聽起來不太好，但從有趣的角度來看，你可能需要做一些類似的措施。所以不，這有點有趣，因為就像每個房東或每個投資者一樣，他們有不同的觀點。然後你知道，不管怎樣，對吧。我想我腦子裏還有最後一個問題。所以對於一個想學習更多，你知道，成為一個基金的人，你知道，比如你幫助家庭基金之類的，你知道，你每天做的一些事情，你知道，沒有人真正談論，因為沒有人真的說，“嘿，如果我是一個專業的房地產投資者，比如基金，我的日常生活是什麼樣子的？”我只是好奇。
Darren ：是的，因為我相信每天，你都會問，好吧，“就五或者十種不同的投資“你會說，好吧，它可能不是它說的，它可以是對的或是錯的。這是一種需要很長時間才能體驗的藝術。擁有像你這樣的人，每一天都在不斷地練習。一次1000個組織，對，所以這很棘手。所以我覺得和問題一樣，我覺得很好。謝謝你答案。那麼你想讓觀眾知道什麼樣的外賣，就像這段視頻裏的外賣一樣？
Modern science has busted many traditional thinking and beliefs but there is one ancient Chinese practice that has been around for thousands of years ago and it certainly is irreplaceable. This belief is known as Feng Shui. The basic concept is to harmonize our surroundings to improvise living, and with real estate being so deeply connected to our everyday life, Feng Shui and its contributions became an unignorable factor for the industry.
This episode with Allen Kong is undoubtedly a fun ride to the unconventional side of the real estate world. Starting from the basics of Feng Shui to its elements, we learn its necessity and the logic behind the concept.
What does Feng Shui actually mean?
How does Feng Shui relate to real estate?
What kind of impact can it have on real estate?
How does Feng Shui help and why is it so important?
Can it really improvise living?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
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Terminology:
SARS [Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome]: SARS is a contagious viral respiratory disease that affected more than 20 countries in 2003. Although yet-uncertain, it is said to have originated from animals and first infected people in southern China’s Guangdong province in late 2002.
For more: https://www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/
Feng Shui: Feng Shui is a Chinese term that has a literal meaning of Wind and Water. It is an ancient Chinese belief of getting the natural energy flow properly balanced in our personal space to enhance living.
For more: https://people.howstuffworks.com/feng-shui.htm
Electromagnetic Field [EMF]: Electromagnetic field is the combination of the electric and magnetic fields. Whether natural or man-made, this invisible energy exists everywhere in the environment we live in. A few of the EMF side-effects include headache, insomnia, depression etc.
For more: https://www.britannica.com/science/electromagnetic-field
Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
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Darren: So Hey Allen, how’s it going?
Allen:Good, I just want to check if the lighting is fine, you can see my face properly and everything is in frame.
Darren: Yeah, yeah it looks perfect.
Allen: Okay, great. Because just now I’m just trying to test the light level you know, because the sky was getting dark a little bit, so I’m just trying to use natural lighting.
Darren: That’s fine. Yeah, thanks for coming to the show. And today’s very special, because I think a lot of people will look at the title like, “Hey, Feng Shui in real estate.” And it’s something that everyone will have questions about because a lot of people believe in it and other people can doubt it. It’s the people I’m definitely curious about. So I’m really happy that you’re here.
Allen: Thanks for having me today. I’ll try to answer as many questions as possible. I know you have a tight schedule, So let’s go with it.
Darren: No, it’s totally fine. And, so I want to ask first, right. How many years have you been practicing Feng Shui?
Allen: I’ve been doing this for 17 years and coincidentally I started in 2003 when it was the year SARS started. So I took some leave you know and then I took a course and I never thought I could actually grasp this idea because I have a technical background from airlines. But here I am after 17 years.
Darren: Wow. Okay, that’s I mean, 17 that’s a long time actually. So for a beginner right, who is interested in Feng Shui, like how you explain Feng Shui to them in a very simple way?
Allen: Feng Shui is basically a study and observation of the environment. So I mean, it’s about 6000-3000 years in Chinese history. So it’s basically gathering data, observation of the weather, geography. And actually, we put a lot of elements of the animals and also the five elements.
Darren: Would you mind telling the audience more about the five elements?
Allen: Yeah, you have the water, fire, metal, earth and wood. So these are the five basic elements which combine compound with the Feng Shui. So we always like to calculate and make the harmony of all the five elements. So if you have too much water that’s not good. For example, if there is too much fire then it’s too hot. So we want the five elements to be in synchronization and harmony.
Darren: Okay, well, I have a real estate investor background. And I’m curious, right? How does Feng Shui impact real estate and why does a landlord or homeowner need to understand more about it?
Allen: Well, really good question Darren because Feng Shui to me and to many Feng Shui practitioners are and is actually real estate because it’s for people to purchase a home, of course we mentioned about harmonizing. You know, so you want the five elements to work for you, not against you. So for us to go to a property we look at a site as if it’s too bright.
Allen: Even if we count a smell, a bit too smelly then that’s bad Feng Shui. Okay, places too windy, you know, or all kinds of stuff just having to wonder how to harmonize it. So we want to balance out all the five elements. For example, let’s talk about water because Feng Shui to the Chinese, soil means water. And water means wealth and health. And also because a lot of big cities, if you observe big cities, they’re always located near a big body of water. For example, New York, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Vancouver, Toronto, San Francisco all these big cities, Sydney, London, you know have a big river that cuts across that means a lot of water go through it so that means wealth and health to those people who live in those areas will congregate and do well. So this is what the basic concept of how I tell my clients of why they should observe these elements.
Darren: I see that’s kind of interesting.
Allen: Yeah.
Darren: What kind of tips do you have for the audience to know their current condition of their space? If that’s the case?
Allen:Well, tips I mean, there’s thousands of books out there in the internet and bookstores and stuff, but basically tips is to observe if you have, like, for example, I put up a photograph the other day, which you see here.
Darren: Oh, that’s cool.
Allen: Yeah, this is one thing I bring out because the other day I was just looking at this property the other day and I saw a huge high power tension tower next to a property. By the way, this is UK, so I took this as a reference. So this place just has this huge high power cable and you have strong electricity current going through, although the scientific world scientists say there is no interference on health into human, but for us I think the other way because you have what they call the electromagnetic field the EMF which you don’t see, but it’s an energy. So like Feng Shui we’re talking about energy you talk about invisible energy, you know when the thing goes through your body, you don’t even know it. And that’s something you should observe. So for me, I would say move away from it especially if you are a fire person. You know, if you say I have a strong sign of a fire, you know, you don’t want to have a clash with this high power attention line because this electricity means fire, so you want to—
Darren: so I mean, like that’s definitely interesting because, you know, in my head right away, if it’s an industrial building that does data or something that requires a lot energy, that’s very efficient. So I was like looking at it and I was like “That shouldn’t be a house, there shouldn’t be anyone living there. If anything it should be like, you know a data center or some kind of businessoriented place that requires a very low cost of electricity and you know , like electricity and stuff like that. It was kind of cool. So if that’s the case—
Allen: Yeah but— sorry, sometimes there’s an exception to this because if a professional says that you need fire, you know, some professionals represent fires. So you want, if you have a lack of these, it’s no problem. But over a majority avoid this high power attention line because they are what we know already, it’s cancer prone.
Darren: Ah, okay.
Allen: Yeah. So I wouldn’t put my family under high electricity if you ask me
Darren: I get it, Yeah. So what are some things that like, let’s say the audience kind of knows that, you know, something’s going on or something is not doing well. In the Feng Shui for real estate for example, how can the audience help their own space.
Allen:Normally, when I visit a premise or a property, I would look at the setting. So if say, for example, a residential, so the most important thing is the place that you spend most of the time. So we go to the bedroom first. So you sleep for six to eight hours presumably, and you spent a few hours there. So I go into the bedroom and have a look at the bed setting. And some people doesn’t have the natural instinct as well of where they should sleep. So I go and sort of jiggle around and see what I can do with a bed. If it’s in the wrong position, the wrong spot, I will tell them let’s change it to a different spot and especially for places like Hong Kong where the rooms are small. Another tip here, a lot of problem with Hong Kong’s apartments is that the bathroom door faces the room of course but convenience but on the other hand it has a negative effect because the bathroom door faces your bed, that’s bad. That’s really bad for health—
Darren: So, sorry about that so in that case right because I’m sure it’s because like right away a lot of my friends have like bedroom facing a bathroom for example right what kind of the things would you do for that situation?
Allen: Okay that’s when I have to go visit a site and look at where the bed is facing relative to the compass, so I have to pull out like one of these, Feng Shui compass
Darren: Oh okay
Allen: which there is no one quick fix rule to have a bathroom facing your bed. So I have to go in and check which direction your door is facing. So, this is getting a little more technical, but generally, I would say If you don’t have me to visit your house, close the door of the bathroom.
Darren: I see.
Allen: And then, of course, for hygiene reasons, also close the lid off of the can.
Darren: I’m sure like since the virus situation, right? I’m sure everyone’s very concerned about that. So it’s not only Feng Shui for a cleanliness point of view, I think that’s very good that you mentioned that. So like, you know just now you mentioned a lot of things where you have elements, you have direction of the place, how the interaction with different buildings work and so on. Do you have any clients that have like a scientific background, but still believe in Feng Shui and also too I’m kind of curious, for yourself a scientific background too you know, why do you think that people who have a scientific background will also understand about Feng Shui and want to know more about it?
Allen:It’s funny when I have people with technical background or scientific background, if you will, they sometimes encounter problems. Which science cannot you know, explain, like I know a person in real life. Holding a technical background, highly educated. He came to me and said: “Hi, I have a health issue.” So I said: “Well, let me have a look at your property.” So he invited me there. And when I stepped into his bathroom I told him, “I could see that you have kidney problems or lower body problems,” then he said: “ Wow, how did you know that?” because I looked at his bathroom, It was built very nicely, beautiful, but it was transparent.
Darren: Oh okay,
Allen: You know, a lot of these interior designers nowadays would like to— it has a good effect to look bigger. You know, if you have a transparent glass, bathroom, it looks sexy. You know, it looks airy,
Darren:For sure.
Allen: but for us, it’s taboo. And especially for that purpose for, kidney problems, and ladies also, will share the same problem. Unfortunately, he took the blunt instead of his wife, so I said cover it up, cover all this glass up or knock it down and rebuild it with bricks. I came back a few months later, problem solved.
Darren: Really? Wow, that’s kind of cool.
Allen: I mean if you have a problem or stuff like this you’re going to see Western Doctor who’ll prescribe you medicine, that’s a scientific way to solve a problem. But then I am looking at this problem with another approach. I mean, how would you like to look at yourself in a covered bedroom when you’re doing your business every day? It’s not really cool, so that’s one case.
Darren: I see. Like, also thinking just now too right, when you mentioned a lot about people living there, right. And obviously, you know, we’re coming from like a real estate background, that there’s a difference between living there and owning it. So is it different when it comes to living in that area or owning it. What’s the difference behind that? Does that affect each other or like just kind of curious how does that intertwine together?
Allen: If you are living in that property, whether you are leasing the property or the owner, you know, say you bought a place even under mortgage, if the house is under your name, either on a lease agreement or a sales and purchase it belongs to you, not a landlord.
Darren: Oh okay,
Allen: So a lot of people say: “Oh, I own a place in Vancouver.” So in my subject to that Feng Shui is that if you are staying in that house in Vancouver, then yes, you are. But you say you know, “I’m living in New York, and I have a tenant that is using that Vancouver property,” so that property cannot tap into the good or bad stuff of the property in terms of Feng Shui yeah, so it depends on where you sign if your name is on the lease agreement that is legally yours.
Darren: That’s really cool because like, I know this is like our third or fourth conversation together and whenever I talk to you there’s so much that I never thought of and obviously right I’m half skeptical and my family, we believe in Feng Shui as well. So same time, it’s like, you know what, I can see it’s not only about, you know, turning belief it’s about the feeling of it. And then it seems like this is something that people keep forgetting that, you know, there are lot of things that are for example scientific maybe happens you know hacker down yet and it’s something that’s very interesting in my mind that I always want to wonder, you know, so I wonder too like for yourself right cause you do all these kind of like connotations, like you know, virtually since everyone’s in COVID-19 lockdown mode, how do you do Feng Shui right now? Like do you go to someone’s place to assess the property or can you do virtual viewings?
Allen: Interesting nowadays where everyone is in isolation or majority of the people are in isolation even though you want to invite, you get invited to a house, I would say don’t because you know, you never know the risk. So now we do this on a remote basis. And I’ve done a couple of these virtual inspections. Like the other day I had a Australian client, he’s building a house in North Sydney.
Darren: Okay.
Allen: So he showed me, he sent me a floor plan. Of course he did his homework, you know, it’s a bit more sophisticated just by just compared to talking on the phone. So he sent me the floor plan, compass, reading and all so on. And then I looked at the floor plan and I can analyze from there from a top view but also he has done a lot of videos so you can shoot videos and send them to me. And I can analyze from that screenshot of, you know how much information I can get it from that screenshot. But however, I must say there are limitations without me being there. So I would say I would discount that by maybe 30 to 40% accurate.
Darren: I see.
Allen: But of course, he worked with me for a long time. So you know, he’s been feeding me a lot of information and so, I can study and analyze, and I gave him my advice, my recommendation. So to answer your question. Yes, it is possible, of course, to do it remotely.
Darren: I see. I think I feel like in my head right now, there’s some technology right now that have AI or some kind of like virtual viewing. And obviously, hopefully time gets better and better. It seems like this is a service that is actually scalable, it doesn’t have to be like a traditional way where you have to walk into a place but obviously it will take some time, like maybe 10 years from now we can do that.
Allen: You’re actually right because with technology nowadays we can use cameras, cell phones, AI’s, the only thing I cannot do is smell. It’s like I mentioned earlier on the initial recording bad smells is actually a bad Feng Shui. So I can’t do that. But it has to rely on the person on the site to beat me with information. So the more information they give me, the more I can digest.
Darren: I see. So let’s say for example, this case, right? If it’s a smell thing, right? Let’s say it smells terrible, like it can be the bedroom or something. So in this scenario, does that mean that if you can get rid of the smell or cover it with a different smell, it would be better? Like, how would you suggest that?
Allen: Yeah. We always try to use a method as natural as possible to neutralize this thing. You know, maybe there is a problem with your neighbor, you know, so he’s causing a problem. So we go next to him and say it’s this? Cause you know, you’re not going to say, too bad. I get a house smell. But you will say “Yeah I think we have a problem, you know as a neighbor.” So we know because bad means something is rotten, and it could have health issues or for the sake of the neighborhood, you know, let’s raise concern and then let’s clean this out together.
Darren: You know, in real estate world, right, there’s something called rights of light or rights of way. That means like, if let’s say, for your asset, your property, something happened that neighbor does that covers your light, you can actually ask for compensation or I say, if you built something that actually intervenes the way you go to places before so maybe, you know, this can be a new thing. It can be the right to smell you know, you’re kind of ruining my asset because your smells bad and the Feng Shui got worse and stuff like that. I mean, it’s a cool idea, just having that in my head just now.
Allen:That’s like some— I think there’s a law in Hong Kong if your air conditioning is dripping water on your neighbors building they can actually sue you. So it’s not just that Feng Shui, it’s illegal.
Darren:Yeah. Okay, so also I remember like the last call we had on the phone, you said that this yearsbad spots or east and south. Like what does that mean? Is something that’s been in my head for so long. I just wanted to ask you for a long time now.
Allen: Because for me when I learned Feng Shui, there’s one thing we call the flying star. It’s like some voodoo idea but it’s real. Flying Stars basically, this thing changes every year. This year, the bad star, it’s in the east. So why does it matter what it means? It could mean natural disastersand in this year’s terms, it’s pandemic.
Darren: I see.
Allen:So the Covid-19 started early this year in China. So if you look at the world map, China is on the list. And I was telling my clients and friends and said, I hope this will never travel overseas. If it goes through overseas, look at Tokyo, Tokyo is east. And then earlier on, Tokyo was hit with this cruise ship and its spread around Tokyo city. And then second, you look at the other cases where Korea was hit. Okay, and I never noticed this place Daegu was actually at the very Eastern quadrant of Korea, South Korea. And not to mention, currently New York had a bad hit. Why not Vancouver. Vancouver’s on the west. So Vancouver’s hit is bad but not as bad as New York City cause New York if you look at the North American continent, it’s right at the eastern quarter. Okay, so that’s the bad star and the number two bad star is actually south so if you look at Europe. Italy, Spain. Bad really bad,this year if for tip again, free tip. If you want to stay we use the five elements to enhance health. So what I tell people “if you don’t see me, I can’t come to your house, put a—we use metal, real metal so I suggest people to buy a music box, the one that you turn that would give you a metallic noise. put it at the east of your house. If your bedroom is in the east, put it in the bedroom, the music box the one that you know the one I’m saying?
Darren: Yeah yeah yeah , I get it.
Allen: The metallic ones because I sometimes hear people use a metal clock. But sometimes metal clock is too annoying because it gives you that click
Darren: Okay, I see
Allen: It disturbs your sleep. So that’s one tip because using metal to enhance or to neutralize the bad star is in the East this year will be more effective.
Darren: To be honest like this is insane to think about that right it’s like wow, to east side and the star and everything that’s a lot of things to absorb, like do you have any source of material people can read on because even for myself like, you know, I’m kind of on the fence because I know nothing about Feng Shui. So do you have any resources that you can share with the audience or myself because like it’d be great to read onto it.
Allen: I sometimes post the things from my own personal observation like this year I actually posted something about the east , actually way back earlier this year. ] So when people are interested to read the stuff I post, you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, which I will pass the information to you later on.
Darren: Okay, that’d be great. Thank you.
Allen: Your audience and fans can then go through Denzity.
Darren: That’d be great. I actually have one last thing just in my head right like I know this is about real estate, so how about investing right, I know the stocks are going down, do you know a similar way to predict the east and so on? Do you make a prediction on what sector is growing this year and stuff like that with Feng Shui knowledge that you have?
Allen: Again, let’s go back to the five elements. The five elements this year, the key element is metal. Metal means if you look at the precious metal market, you know, if you have, you know been observing, I mean, precious metal has gone up this year, and it’s done quite well. So I’m not an expert in investment. But I said metal will do pretty well this year.
Darren: I see.
Allen: So this is my observation out of the five elements.
Darren: That is interesting because like, I know nothing about Feng Shui and even listening to it, it’s kind of interesting, never thought that way. It’s just like different way of you know, approaching and obviously I hope the audience learns more about you. But before that because I know we have asked a lot of things, right? What kind of takeaway would you like the audience to have in this whole video?
Allen: Well, if your audience can go through you, Denzity, or Darren, I can offer you a discount for a Feng Shui inspection on a remote basis.
Darren: Oh, that’d be great. Thank you. On behalf of the audience, thank you.
Allen: I would tell your fans to look up Darren’s Denzity, to track me down and I give a nice cut.
Darren: That’ll be good. So like, I think you have a couple of links you sent to me and later on, I’ll post everything on the show notes. And I guess what’s the best way to find you among all that?
Allen: You can find me on WhatsApp which I’ll provide you the numbers and WeChat and also Facebook and also give you my email address.
Darren: Okay. I think that’s really great because even for myself I need to digest a little bit, and thanks for the time because it’s a subject that I’m sure everyone’s curious about and for myself and I really hope to learn from you another time and maybe next time we’ll have a long view taking that we can digest or even deep dive to something even more intrinsic. Yeah, I just want to say like, thanks for the time.
Allen: Thanks for having me again. Thanks for allowing me to share my knowledge on Feng Shui and I hope that fans will benefit from this.
Darren: I’m sure they do. Thank you so much. Okay, if that’s okay, I hope to talk to you next time then.
First world Asian countries like Singapore and Japan are highly chosen by foreigners for having expat-friendly policies and safe environment. In today’s globalized world, cross border investment has become essential for many industries, and with that comes the necessity of understanding different property markets and the people involved.
In today’s video, Peter gives us valuable insights on both Singapore and Japan’s Real Estate market. He also shares the importance of conducting a proper research and gathering accurate information before further engagement.
Which areas in Singapore are the “hot topic” amongst overseas investors?
What type of property can a foreigner own in Singapore?
How is working from home affecting the commercial real estate market?
What are the major key points of cross border investment?
How to find a reliable partner in a different region?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
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Terminology:
Fortune 500：The fortune 500 is a yearly list of the top 500 companies in terms of their total revenues. This survey is carried out every year by Fortune magazines to rank both private and public companies that operate in the United States. Holding a place in the fortune 500 lists is globally considered to be an honour.
Leasehold：A leasehold property basically means that one cannot have lifelong or complete ownership of the property or land they invest in. Instead, it only allows them to occupy the property for a certain period of time.
Freehold：Unlike leasehold, freehold allows investors complete and permanent ownership of the property including the piece of land that it’s built on, which means that the proprietorship does not have any time limit.
Bungalow：A bungalow is a type of housing that is styled to be like a cottage with a sloped roof, a good number of windows and doors, and a big piece of land around it to give more privacy. Bungalows are typically a lot smaller than the land it’s built on and is one to two-storied.
Asian financial crisis：The Asian Financial Crisis is a financial disaster that started in Thailand in 1997 and rapidly spread to the economies of the neighbouring countries. It mainly affected East Asian and Southeast Asian countries, such as Indonesia and South Korea.
Numerology: Starting from ancient times, numerology has evolved to become the modern field of study that it is today. To put it in simple words, numerology is the study of numbers. The goal is to figure out the outcomes based on a person’s number, much like astrology.
Pachinko：Pachinko is a gambling game that originated in Japan. It requires both skills and chances to play and is said to be a mixture of pinball and slots. Japan has thousands of pachinko parlours due to its growing popularity, even among foreigners.
Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
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Darren: Hey Peter, thanks for joining us.
Peter: Hi, Darren.
Darren: Yeah so for the audience who might not know, I met you through a friend, Liyann, from Singapore. And because it’s very hard for me to find someone in Singapore that understands the real estate sector and have the potential. And Liyann was like, “Hey, Peter is the person that I have to talk to more about Singapore market and Japan market because you’re working on that.” So it’s an honor to have you and thanks so much for your time and effort to come on board.
Peter: No, Darren, it’s my pleasure, you know, to be on your show.
Darren: Thank you.
Well, before we go into that would you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself and your work?
Peter: Okay. Yeah, sure. So, my name is Peter Koh. I am the Key Executive Officer for HJ Real Estate Pte Ltd (HJRE). That’s KEO in short. KEO is a very unique terminology in our real estate market, so I hold the license to the Singapore office. And what we do or what my role is actually a lot of compliance. So I need to follow the guidelines of the government to run the company in terms of sales and marketing so that customers’ interest is protected. And I’ve been in the business for a while, 22 years.
Darren: Woah, okay that’s a long time.
Peter: So prior to starting this company, I was once in a big company, Century 21. So I’ve been doing local sales and leasing for those years, doing private residential, I do offices, office sales leasing. I also help clients with industrial properties like factories and warehouses as well. And yeah, over those years in fact, I’ve done an office leasing in Hong Kong as well.
Darren: Really?
Peter: Yeah. So I helped an IT client and that was in 1999. He wanted to expand into Hong Kong after setting up his Singapore office, and I got him one floor at Money Building.
Darren: Oh, okay. That’s cool.
Peter: Because at that time the Singapore DBS, Development Bank was just at the ground floor. And he took one of the units above Yeah. And, and I was in Hong Kong earlier just after the COVID exploded in Hong Kong. I was in Hong Kong and looking at money building and it was still standing nice and beautiful there.
Darren: Hope everything’s okay over there.
Peter: Yeah. Yeah, that’s right.
Darren: Because I think when we chatted before, right, you said you always come to Hong Kong. So obviously, like, you know, Hong Kong is a place it’s pretty close to Singapore relatively. So how often do you come to Hong Kong?
Peter: Well, I tried to go to Hong Kong every year because I have a business partner in Hong Kong. And they are, of course, a big real estate broker in Hong Kong. So we are business partner, they send their expats clients, mainly the fortune 500 companies to Singapore. And because they don’t have an office in Singapore, I’m actually doing the groundwork for them so I take the clients to find, to look for properties to settle down.
Darren: Yeah, it seems like you do a lot of different things then.
Peter: Yeah, so that’s, that’s the Singapore business. Whereas for Japan wise, when we started the HJ Real Estate, the head office is actually in Tokyo. So I get the support of housing Japan in Tokyo as well as a HJ Asset Management back in Japan for clients that want to invest into Japan, we have our head office. We’re about 60 people supporting us.
Darren: Yeah, I see. Because when I’m thinking about what to ask you for this interview— and that’s interesting, because like not only do you have experienced in Singapore, you have some in Hong Kong, some in Japan. So I think there’s a wide range of questions because like, in my mind, there’s a lot of questions I have with both market right, Japan and also Singapore. So to kickstart right, for the audience that might not be familiar with Singapore like myself, what are areas, which oversea investors tend to invest. And would you might elaborating a bit more on the neighborhoods to give the audience a better picture on how’s life?
Peter: Sure, sure, sure. So, for investors that come to Singapore, the natural choice would be District Nine in Singapore. So this district actually covers our famous shopping belt, which is Orchard Road and Somerset Yeah. So that’s like right in the hustle and bustle of the city. And of course, close by would be Emerald Hill and Cane Hill. These two streets are slightly off the main shopping area. But you know, these two streets have got houses where they are very nice, they’re respected charms. Okay. There are quite a lot of conservation houses over there, you know, so it’s old charm. Besides that, in District Nine, we also have the Nasim area. So in the Nasim area, you will find a lot of embassies over there, and a huge group class bungalows owned by those multimillionaires or even billionaires. Yeah. And this is really highly sought after by the local and foreign investors. So besides the embassies, the good class bungalows, they are also high-end apartments where foreign investors can buy into alright. And of course in District Nine a stone’s throw away would be the popular River Valley, River Valley road or that area. So this is an enclave for expatriates living in Singapore, because a lot of condominiums are actually built along the Singapore River. So it’s actually a very nice living environment. And yeah, so that’s the main target when investors come into Singapore, they usually will look at District Nine, and then besides nine there’s actually District Ten. District Ten covers Tangling, Holland Village I’m sure you heard of Holland Village and Boca Tema area. Yeah, so that’s a neighboring district. Tonight of course the numbers tell that they are kind of like side by side, okay. After 10 would be District 11. District 11 would be Newton and Novena road. So these two district 10, 11, there are about like 10-15 minutes drive from District Nine. So it’s still very close to Orchard Road and the business district. So in that way it’s still very popular with the foreign investors and and whereas 10 and 11 in terms of pricing, I would say about 10 to 20% lower than District Nine. So for investors that doesn’t want to spend so much for start, they can look at District 10 and 11 besides nine, and of course of late district one and two, which is our business center is also getting popular. I’m not sure you’ve ever read it but the billionaire James Dyson, he really made headlines when he bought a super penthouse in district two. I think that cost him about around 73 million. Yeah, 73 million Singapore dollars. Yeah, right up above. I think it’s higher than 60th stories so you get the full, you know, city view that you could probably see as far as some Malaysian and Indonesian island, that vantage point. Yeah, and the crazy thing about it is it’s a 99 year leasehold property.
Darren: Oh, really that’s a long time ago.
Peter: Yeah. 99 years lease hold. I mean in Singapore, we have three year holds, so we were all surprised that he bought a leasehold property. But the thing is it’s a great location. It sits on top of a MTR station. Yeah, right above the MTR station.
Darren: So I have a quick question right, is a foreign investor able to own a freehold in Singapore?
Peter: Yes. So, foreign investors can buy private residential property okay, as long as it’s non-landed, so they buy strata title residential property, they are allowed to buy that and these comes either in the 99 year lease hold or a freehold. So these are two types that are available for investors to buy into. Yeah, and of course, I mean, freehold is more attractive to them. Those who can afford.
Darren: So he spent that much money but still a lease hold. That’s like how attractive Singapore real estate market really is. No, that’s interesting. Because like, usually it’s like if you buy a core assets, you want to buy everything in full control. Right. So that’s what I like I used to do. You know, I think I told you my background before, I worked for real estate fund. And then if we spend that much money we’re like Okay, no matter what we have to get that piece of like freehold, we have to control everything. But then yeah, I think that’s, that’s interesting. I think it’s something that like, I’ve always heard a lot about Singapore real estate market and how attractive it is, but that showed a glimpse of how it’s like. So because right now it’s almost July, would you mind telling the audience a really quick update with what’s going on in the market?
Peter: Sure, sure. Sure. Well, I mean, let me just go back to Mr. Dyson again, after he bought that 73 million super penthouse, he bought a 45 million good class bungalow and for that he owns the land and the house.
Darren: Oh that’s good then, at least he got that.
Peter: So within like, three or four months, he spent over 100 million buying real estate in Singapore. Wow. That’s a really you know, headlines you know, during that period. Yeah. So yeah, back to your question over the last two months because of the COVID situation, I would say real estate activities almost came to a standstill during the lockdown. We did see some transaction going on with virtual viewing alright, which is good news. A lot of the off plans were actually transacted. It was amazing. I mean, being a realtor for over 20 years, I was a bit surprised. You know, it just shows the kind of confidence buyers have with the local market. Yeah. So during our COVID lockdown, we were locked down for about like two months, there was still ongoing transaction from local buyers as well as foreign buyers as well. Yeah. So what I foresee is moving forward, I’ve asked a lot of so called people in the industry, their gut feel is that prices may fall, maybe around about 5% or thereabouts moving forward. And developers are giving some small discounts and ties to stimulate sales. And which is working quite well. In fact, the latest I heard is a quite a bit of Chinese buying some high end project in District two. Yeah, that was that was pretty surprising. I think I’m sure you heard of the revenge buying at those Louis Vuitton and Hermes stores. Yeah and I see that happening in our showroom, you know. So it’s pretty amazing, you know. So I think the high end market should still hold. What we’re watching is really the transaction numbers, whether it goes up, down or remains stable, but I think as long as our local unemployment rate doesn’t spike, I feel that our real estate market will still be resilient.
Darren: Yeah, I see. Yeah, sidetrack a little bit, right. Because like, the whole virtual viewing thing is a big topic in our industry. Because a lot of people obviously thing that is nice to have, it’s not a must have. But it seems like now at the time that it showcase that obviously from your perspective at the moment, the case is seems like there are some, you know, activities driven by virtue viewing, but it’s something that like, you know, for myself because like I always debate with my friends about property tech, and it’s a big topic, but like among us, but you know just now you cover a lot of regions and by the way, thank you that was actually really really good. Like I’ve been to Singapore, I think last year around March and so when you talk about different districts, I had in my head just like walking around the beautiful country, different areas and so on just having that in my mind. So with all the popular areas for born investor body types, do you think there is something that is a bit overrated or underrated?
Peter: Well before COVID-19 we saw a big surge in the good, big size luxury condominiums. Okay, that was bought up by primarily the Chinese investor. So I think this luxury market will continue to perform well, as long as you know, well we are having our general election soon, and as long as you know, the election results doesn’t shock, you know the world, then I think the demand for high end real estate will continue because if the ruling party continues to get in Parliament, then it will probably be business as usual. I feel that probably the commercial property will take a harder hit with this COVID situation. So I’m actually quite negative on retail shops and office space. Office space, especially because over the last two months, a lot of us are working from home. In fact, a lot of us are still working from home. So I think a lot of the, you know, big corporations will look at reducing commercial space, you know, office space moving in the future. Yeah. So I think that sector will get a hit. Yeah. And prior to COVID our prices have gone up quite a bit. So I think yeah, that will be a sector that we’ll watch very closely. That means the office sales and leasing.
Darren: I see. I think that like, I couple of my friends are talking about this before too in Hong Kong before COVID. They’re like, okay, Singapore. Real Estate market is booming. I think it’s kind of attractive to go in, at the same time, COVID-19 really effects everything and now everyone’s still like, “Hey, I’m still interested. I’m still looking at it,” but at the same time is that they want to see you know, where the opportunity lies, where if their assets for example are going down, maybe it’s a good time for them to go in. So I think for some people it’s a miss, it’s unfortunate, you know, for some others it’s a treasure. So I think it depends on which side you’re on, which you know, because before I was thinking about this whole conversation with you, and I was like, “Hey, if you’re someone that has experienced which cross border and also working with different investors and partners, I think that will be nice to understand more because it’s very rare that you have someone like you, yourself that work with different people, have to experience.” So, we talked just now before we talked about how you got started Singapore real estate market, you know, with Hong Kong and Japan and so on. Would you mind telling the audience more also by experience with cross border investing? Or facilitating that process.
Peter: Well, I started my real estate career after university. So that was like when I was 24. And that’s right smack in the Asian financial crisis. Yeah so in a sense, I was fortunate, fortunate to experience a slowdown during SARS. Yeah. And then subsequently the US subprime crisis. So and now COVID. So my real estate career is peppered with a lot of crisis. So I think I think over the years, it has proven that, you know, the best time for cross border investment is actually during a crisis. Yeah. So the astute investors, you know, who have studied a certain market, you know, will take the opportunity presented by any crisis to enter the market. And many good properties, you know, will be available for sale during such times, and especially markets like Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, you know, where land is scarce. You know, a lot of Yeah, heavily built up, big developers hoarding on to real estate. So I think these are markets where the best time to buy is during a crisis. Yeah. So I would say for cross border investment, try to observe the big money. You know, like, for example, if we talk about investing in Japan, we observe a lot of big money in Singapore, going into Japan. So because we are also helping big developers of a family wealth to buy into Japan. So really, these big money are entering the market. So I mean, we can all agree that whether it is the stock market or FX you know, it’s always the big money that moves the market. So when it comes to cross border investment, I would say the advice to the audience is try to get information about, you know, the big money flow. Yeah, which country are they entering? A sovereign wealth fund, especially yeah. So that’s what I have to, you know, say to whoever’s listening in.
Darren: That’s a good tip. That’s a really, really good tip because even for us, when we work in the professional, real estate before, same thing is that there’s always bigger players that see maybe projected things a bit ahead of time. So if you can see where the money’s going, you kind of already help yourself to guide you to think about, hey, should I even consider those areas? And what if no one’s really looking into my area? You know, like, what does that mean? Is it because I’m just too smart, too early? Or simply that I’m wrong? Right. So yeah, so it’s something that like, you know, everyone does, and something that for investing is concerning sometimes when everyone’s going towards it. But for big players, it’s very rare to make mistakes because that’s what they’re known for. But you know, like during this whole experience, right, what type of clientele do you have and what is their background usually.
Peter: Okay, of course, when I started off, I also did public housing in Singapore. I did the sales and leads of public housing then subsequently I have a chance to serve the high net worth clients that buy multimillion dollar properties. I also get in touch with institutional clients that are capable of buying hotels and shopping malls in excess of 100 million US. So yeah, so these are the clients that over the years I’ve had the opportunity to work with. And the other interesting group would be the expatriates that relocate from US, from Europe to Singapore, we also serve clients that are relocating from China and India, you know, so because in Singapore, they are lots of MMCs that set up shop here. So we have opportunities to serve the senior management from CEO downwards to help them with their housing. So yeah, that’s really good experience, you know, interacting with all these expatriates from all over the world.
Darren: So like through that, right because there’s something that I’m always curious too, working with like Singaporean, Hong Kong people, Indians or expats and many, many more. Do you think that when it comes to real estate, how do they think differently and how do they approach it because it’s something that for my past before, I all had to speculate what the other investors, buyer, or sellers were thinking, and I was kind of curious too like when you’re working with so many of them, and I’m sure you’re really hands on. So I’m sure you know, more than most people. So I just want to know, like, what’s your take on that?
Peter: Right. So I think I think when it comes to investors this is from all over the world, they look at the same thing, you know, they want good location, they want value for money, right? They want to value buy. So that’s the same unless the people that comes in, they’re buying a property that they will stay okay, then maybe the numbers are not so important and something that, you know it’s the heart that’s more important, they want to buy something that they like, you know, whereas for investors, it’s really a lot about the numbers, the lump, the numbers must make sense for them, then they will sign the check, you know, as for you know, clients of these different nationality, usually, you know, if I have a chance, because I’m a trained numerologist, so, if I’m trying to know their birthday, you know, I can kind of read how they think you know, how they make decisions.
So, in the study of numerology, we can from the birthday, we can know how a person actually uses more of the head or more of the heart, you know. So in that sense, I may tailor my presentation differently. And of course, if they come as a couple husband and wife, you know, if I know their numbers, then I could also tell who is in charge.
Darren: Okay. Can you teach me how to do it? I think I need that kind of skill set.
Peter: You can come and attend my class.
Darren: Wow, I have to go to Singapore all the way to I mean, yeah, next time I stop by Singapore, obviously, I will meet up with you to talk about it. Wow, that’s kind of cool.
Peter: I actually teach agents how to read numbers. So, that’s a little skill related to sales and marketing. Yeah, it’s very fun because, you know, there’s some group of buyers that they don’t care about numbers, you know, you supply them with all the facts and figures, the numbers, they will just put a site, what they want is they step in, they feel good they buy whereas on the other hand, there will be this group of people that they must look at numbers, you know, they base your buying, you know, on numbers so, it’s a lot of analysis here. So by knowing a person’s date of birth, you know, I know how much numbers to present and when to stop.
Darren: Maybe, Maybe after this call, I’ll give you mine and you can instantly tell me too because I kind of need to reevaluate the way I look at things sometimes.
Peter: Sure, sure, I’m more than happy to share that with you and of course you can always ask Liyann that introduced us together so I kind of like read her like a book. She was quite amazed when I, when I had a chat with her.
Darren: Damn, that’s crazy. So, you know, like, you know, you work with different people, right? And something that I obviously want the audience to understand more too, you know, obviously you have that skill set. Not many have that skill set or have the knowledge, but then you know, a lot of overseas investors are bound to work with many, many different partners, right or people to work together like lawyers and accountants, maybe property manager like someone like a real estate agent or other many many different experts, right? I want to know for your methods, like what is your method when finding investors or partners in different regions? And how do you find them and how do you trust them to work together?
Peter: Right. So in terms of finding these people, I usually will rely on network. A lot of our businesses come through word of mouth to introduction, like the two of us, how we got to know each other, yeah it’s because we had a common friend yeah, so they connected us. Same thing for my business partner in Hong Kong, it was also connected through a mutual friend. So they know that I’m doing a serious business, I’m, you know, settled into my real estate career, I’m not going to like, switch jobs or whatever. Right. So they feel safe to recommend my services to the other partners. So as for me, when I choose to work with a different partner it’s really what we call the chemistry right. When you sit down and you start talking, we will exchange ideas, we will share our common values, our vision, and that’s at the point of time, I determine whether you know, it’s a good fit. Yeah. And so that’s how I work with my real estate partners. Whereas as for clients, then a lot of time is really as I mentioned, the chemistry. So fortunately for me, the chemistry I read it off through the date of birth, you know, so that’s how I identify you know, and of course when you interact with people, you can also sense it, you know, based on, you know, the accumulated experience, you have kind of a sensing whether, you know, that buyer is serious, or he’s just shopping, or he’s just, you know, yeah, trying to fool around.
Darren: Which happens quite a lot, actually.
Peter: Yeah, I was actually conned before so,
Darren: Really? That’s unfortunate. Maybe you have looked into my birthday before, it seems like chemistry is pretty good so far. So, you know, good for us.
Peter: Yeah, yeah, I’m sure. We have good chemistry working together.
I think most importantly, I always believe in the law of attraction. You know, if we are professional then we will attract professional partners and good clients. So to me I always make sure that we try to do our job good and well first and then we can attract clients that can appreciate the kind of work that we do. So if I myself, if my company’s no good then I cannot expect you know us to attract the right kind of customers. So I strongly believe in that law of attraction a lot.
Darren: That’s pretty good. I think a lot audience can learn from that because, you know, when I talk about real estate, right a lot my friends are like, you know, I don’t know what is the other partner doing, the experts are doing are they really like telling you the full picture or not, and I was like, Hey, I don’t even know if you would even know what you want yet. Like, if you don’t know what you want, do you think that you’ll find someone that’ll actually know what they present to you? You know, it’s kind of like logic, right? It’s kind of like this logic thing and then I think a lot of people, like you, for example right, I’m sure you always see different people, with different people you just have experience. But then I think sometimes it’s like you have to do your market research. Really know what your intention is, are you number guy or you are more artsy person that’s go with the feelings. And you have to be honest with it, like “Hey, you know what, I’m a feeling person. I want to buy something.” But maybe you’ll find someone else to help you with the number side because they’ll be the one who’s like, “Hey, you know what, hey, calm down. I don’t want to buy something that you like. But first of all, let’s think about a numbers first to compensate that.” So when you say the whole thing out, I realized right away the interesting thing about real estate is that it is something more than just numbers. It’s a feeling you get and sometimes it’s more than this feeling because you know, in fact it’s already a factual business. So I actually kind of appreciate that you’ve pointed it out and yeah, as far as I know, it’s kind of weird, but I think it was really interesting. Yeah so I think before you mentioned that a lot of Singapore investors are looking into Japan markets, which is obviously designed to expand that. I just want to know like, how’s your experience with that so far? And, you know, and same thing, obviously Japan’s market was also hit really badly. And I just want to know your view on it. And how do you feel about it in the long run?
Peter: Okay. Well, my entry into the Japanese market is actually very interesting. It all started because I go to Japan every year. Like, what, 20-25 years ago, since 25 years ago, I go to Japan every year because I go to attend a ceremony a big ceremony in Japan, that’s where the shrine that I pray is. So I go there every year. And being a real estate guy naturally we’ll roam around Tokyo and look at the real estate right? And it was about like, six, seven years ago. Then I realized, “Hey, you know, this market is actually good, but why is price not appreciating yet?”, then that’s when I started to learn more about the economy and the real estate. And slowly the tourism numbers started to go up. And I realized, hey, that’s really the time to you know, do something about it. And I started to look out for hotels for sale and just try to bring it to local developers to see who wants to, you know, have a piece of Japan. That’s how I started. Yeah. And slowly I discovered there are some Singaporeans or Singapore companies that own Japanese real estate. So it became more and more interesting, you know, and, then subsequently, I found a broker in Tokyo that speaks English. That’s very important. Language is very important because I don’t really speak Japanese. I mean I look like one but my Japanese is really very elementary. So that’s that’s how I got started slowly and finally it materialized into, you know, a recruiting company, a Japanese recruiting company in Singapore headhunted me, because the Tokyo head office wanted to set up office in Singapore, you know, so yeah, it was just a very interesting experience, you know, because I, at that point of time, I didn’t run a big company, you know, so I wasn’t like the famous guy in the Singapore real estate market, you know, but it was interesting how things evolved. And as I said, law of attraction, you know, it just happened, you know, people in the in the market just introduced and put things together. And that’s how I got myself to fit into the Japanese market.
Darren: Yeah, like, I think some people that I know, share similar experience, they travel a lot to the place and they fall in love with the location. And I feel like people in real estate is because they kind of fall in love with things that no one can see which is the area neighborhood and they started becoming Hey, I actually know quite a lot about what’s going on. And then they start going towards deeper and deeper they just get in, stumble upon the industry. And I think it’s something that you just mentioned it’s kind of something that echos because I used to work— one of the projects we had before, I was working on is a residential building in Shinjuku. And then same thing, it’s like, you know, actually finding someone can speak English well, in Japan, is actually not easy. And then especially in real estate sector, and it makes a huge difference because you know, when you’re overseas, you find someone that you can connect to and talk to you, we really save a lot of time whereby, you know, a lot of times if you keep forgetting is that people have different culture, the way they explain so you don’t want any misunderstanding between so we mentioned about, you know, finding someone in English, can speak English. And it’s actually been to a lot people don’t realize that actually only a small group people in Japan can speak really well and can communicate. But this is very important if you can’t speak the language, find someone who can speak language otherwise, it’s a lot of headache and which I have explained before, it’s not easy.
Peter: Totally, totally. So for us, our strength really lies in the fact that in our Tokyo office, half my colleagues are non Japanese. So my colleague speaks English and Mandarin. So quite a few of them are actually from Taiwan and China. So in fact, my Tokyo office we are the biggest real estate company in Tokyo that serves the foreign market that means a foreign investor.
I dare to say we have the biggest market share. And in fact this year is supposed to be 2020 Olympics. My colleagues in the leasing side, they actually were appointed agents for the International Olympic Committee. Advance party to look for real estate when they first started working on the Olympic project. Yeah. So that’s something very exciting for us, something I’m very proud of working with my colleagues in the Tokyo office.
Darren: In my head there’s actually more and more questions flowing out. But then you know, the more important thing is that I want the audience to know more about what to do about different markets. Did you have any tips and advice you can share with the audience when choosing different regions to country like, for example, Singapore, Japan, and even Japan, Singapore, you know how they compare, apple to apple.
Peter: Right. So, of course, my advice is, you know, real estate is a long term investment, you don’t go in speculate one year, two year and try to make a lot of money, you know, you never know. Yeah, like, the COVID situation is proven, as you know, that things can really, you know, happen out of the blue. And if you’re not planning for the long term, you know, you get burned. So, I would say investors must always look at the fundamentals of the respective market that they want to invest. The basic demand and supply on real estate, you know, study of that is always very important, you know, you’ll never go wrong, looking at fundamentals. And then of course, investing in various region, the political and currency risk is something really to watch out for. And with that, then, you know, studying the numbers investors can safely put their money into whatever market when they have, you know, done the homework. But of course, if there are no time to do the homework, then they should speak to brokers who are really specialized in those market brokers they are experienced in the market. You know, and of course, don’t just listen to one, listen to a couple. Read a lot of news, reliable news about the market. Yeah, talk to various people. Then you can form your own opinion, I think that’s very important. And then from there, discuss your objective with with the local broker, you know, what is your objective of putting money in that market? For example, in Singapore, are you buying a second home or you are looking to just park your excess funds or you’re diversifying your portfolio? So I think between Singapore and Japan market as far as foreigners are concerned, I think the major concern I feel my little advice investors is the, there’s a stamp duty. That means the foreign tax that the Singapore government has place, you know, on the foreigners buying into Singapore real estate. So it’s pretty hefty, you know, foreigners are paying like 20% more than locals. It’s a lot of money. It’s 20% more, that is why you know, as very conscientious brokers in Singapore, we are actually taking a lot of Singapore investors into Japan, because the upside is so much better. And the market is mature. A lot of properties are freehold, the yield is in fact better than Singapore. And you don’t have to pay foreign tax. You see, I think that is one of the main so called selling point of Japan. And that’s why I got into the business. Of course, looking forward. We hope the Olympics will materialize next year. And after the Olympics we are looking at casino projects, maybe compressing a port in Japan. Singapore real estate actually went up because of the two casino or the two integrated resort that was built. So my simple question is, if Japan follows the same footstep by building the IR casino, the convention, the centers and whatever that comes with it, will there be more foreigners going into the country? You know, I think the answer is definitely yes. And they definitely need more than to IRS because you know, the Japanese are actually gamblers, they play their Pachinko right, which is actually quite boring.
Darren: And Japan is quite big too, you know, and Japan itself is an entertainment hub so I think that you could definitely do quite a lot. Not only for the sentiment because I love Japan and hearing you say that you go back at least every year is something that I hope I can do like once every two or three years. Every time I go there it’s like “Wow, I don’t want to leave the country,” you know it’s beautiful, it’s great, good food, good everything; everyone’s nice and it’s just beautiful. But you know I think that was good advice and a good takeaway for the audience. I’m going to steal a few bits here and there from you when I tell people about, you know, what’s going on and so for the people that might be interested to learn more about Singapore Real Estate and different real estate, how would we suggest them to reach out to you and talk to you more?
Peter: I will provide you with my contact number later and then you can put it up on your website so yeah, just send me a text. WhatsApp, Skype, or whatever.
Darren: And my birthday haha.
Peter: Sure, sure. It actually really helps so it’s interesting you know, I always stress a lot on chemistry between broker and customers as well because we want to give our best to our clients but at the same time we want to find clients that are receptive to our very honest opinion. But the funny thing is that sometimes you cannot always find such clients. There will be that group that have their own opinion, their own way of thinking, so it’s just very interesting. So having the ability to read numbers and know the chemistry really helps. It really makes the job a lot more effective and both parties are happy with each other. It really contributes to the so called nice, happy experience investing in whichever country.
Darren: I see, I think that’s a really good way to summarize everything and obviously I’ll include everything in the show notes. I just want to say thanks for your time and effort, it’s a really interesting topic and thanks for being generous with your tips because I think you covered so much more about the location, the sentiments, the insights that a lot of the audience, I’m sure will get a lot out of it. So thank you and I really hope we can do a part two with you. We’re thinking of doing a longer form in the future to talk more about their journey and we have other experts come together to share different insights. So I really hope that we have a part two and I really appreciate it, and you know, I’ll send you my birthday.
Peter: [laughs] Yeah, I like that. So definitely I look forward to part two and I think whatever we do, the ultimate objective is to provide the audience, the listeners out there with up-to-date information, things that are happening on the ground so that they can make the best decision. To us nothing beats having clients buying real estate that they feel they have made the best decision.
Darren: Yeah, for sure. So I’ll let you know next time and I guess until next time then.
Peter: Yeah, yeah good. Thanks for your time.
Darren: You too, bye.
Peter: Okay, bye. ===
Darren ：嘿，Peter，謝謝你加入我們。
Peter：嗨，Darren 。
Darren ：是的，觀眾可能不知道，我是通過來自新加坡的朋友Liyann認識你的。因為很難找到一個瞭解新加坡房地產行業並有潜力的人。Liyann說，“嘿，Peter是我要和他談談新加坡市場和日本市場的人。”所以很榮幸能有你，非常感謝你的時間和努力。
Darren ：是的，我明白了。是的，稍微轉移一下，對吧。因為在我們這個行業裏，虛擬觀看是一個很大的話題。因為很多人顯然擁有的東西是美好的，它不是必須擁有的。但現在看來，從你的角度來看，現在的情况似乎是有一些，你知道，由美德觀影驅動的活動，但這是我喜歡的，你知道的，對我自己來說，因為就像我總是和我的朋友討論房地產科技一樣，這是一件大事話題，但就像我們一樣，但你知道，你剛剛覆蓋了很多地區，順便說一句，謝謝你，這真的很好。就像我去過新加坡，我想去年3月左右，當你談到不同的地區時，我的腦海裏就像是在美麗的國家、不同的地區走來走去，腦子裏就想著。囙此，對於所有天生的投資者群體來說，你認為有什麼東西被高估或低估了嗎？
Darren ：我明白了。我想，我的幾個朋友以前也在香港談這個。他們就像，好吧，新加坡。房地產市場正在蓬勃發展。我覺得進去有點吸引人，同時，COVID-19真的影響了一切，現在每個人都會說，“嘿，我還是感興趣的。我還在看，”但與此同時，他們希望看到機會在哪裡，如果他們的資產在下降，也許現在是他們進入的好時機。所以我想對某些人來說，這是一種懷念，是不幸的，你知道，對另一些人來說，這是一種財富。所以我認為這取決於你站在哪一方，你知道，因為在我考慮與你的整個談話之前，我想，“嘿，如果你是一個有過跨境經驗的人，同時也與不同的投資者和合作夥伴合作，我想瞭解更多會很好，因為你很少有像你這樣的人，你自己和不同的人一起工作，必須要經歷討論瞭如何與香港和日本等建立新加坡房地產市場。 您是否也想通過跨境投資的經驗告訴聽眾更多？ 或促進該過程。
Darren ：這是個好建議。這是一個非常非常好的建議，因為即使是對於我們來說，當我們以前在專業的房地產行業工作時，同樣的事情是總有一些更大的玩家在時間之前看到了一些可能的預測。所以，如果你能看到錢的去向，你已經在引導你思考，嘿，我應該考慮那些方面嗎？以及如果沒有人真正進入我的區域怎麼辦？你知道，比如，那是什麼意思？是因為我太聰明，太早了嗎？或者只是說我錯了？正確的。是的，所以這是一種，你知道，每個人都會這樣做的事情，而對於投資來說，有時候每個人都會去做。但對於大型玩家來說，犯錯誤是非常罕見的，因為這就是他們的出名之處。但你知道，就像在這段經歷中，對吧，你有什麼樣的客戶，他們的背景通常是什麼。
Darren ：就像這樣，是因為有些事情我也一直很好奇，像新加坡人、香港人、印度人或者外籍人士等等。你認為當談到房地產時，他們的想法會有什麼不同，他們是如何處理的？因為對於我過去的來說，我都要猜測其他投資者、買家或賣家的想法，而我也有點好奇，就像你和他們中的許多人合作時，我相信你真的很在行。所以我相信你知道，比大多數人都多。所以我只想知道，你對此有何看法？
Darren ：太瘋狂了。所以，你知道，就像，你知道，你和不同的人一起工作，對嗎？我也很想讓觀眾瞭解更多的東西，你知道，很明顯你有這個技能。沒有多少人具備這種技能，或者有知識，但是然後您知道，很多海外投資者必將與許多不同的合夥人一起工作，或者人們像律師和會計師一樣一起工作， 也許像房地產經紀人之類的物業經理或其他許多不同的專家，對嗎？ 我想知道您的方法，例如在不同地區尋找投資者或合作夥伴時的方法是什麼？ 您如何找到他們？您如何信任他們一起工作？
Darren ：真不錯。我認為很多觀眾可以從中學習因為，你知道，當我談到房地產時，我的很多朋友都會說，你知道，我不知道另一個合夥人在做什麼，專家們在做什麼，他們真的喜歡告訴你全部情况嗎不管怎樣，我就想，嘿，我甚至不知道你是否知道你想要什麼。比如，如果你不知道你想要什麼，你認為你會找到一個真正瞭解他們的人嗎給你禮物？你知道，這有點像邏輯，對吧？這有點像邏輯，然後我想很多人，比如你，對吧，我相信你總是看到不同的人，有不同的人有經驗的人。但我覺得有時候你得做市場調查。真的知道你的意圖是什麼，你是數字人還是更藝術化的人，隨波逐流。你必須實話實說，比如“嘿，你知道嗎，我是個有感情的人。我想買點東西。”但也許你會找到其他人來幫你解决數位問題，因為他們會說，“嘿，你知道嗎，嘿，冷靜點下來。我不想買你喜歡的東西。但首先，讓我們先考慮一個數位來彌補這一點，“所以當你把整件事都說出來的時候，我立刻意識到房地產不僅僅是數位。這是你得到的一種感覺，有時它比這種感覺更强烈，因為你知道，事實上，這已經是一個事實上的生意。所以我真的很善良非常感謝你指出了這一點，就我所知，這有點奇怪，但我認為這真的很有趣。是的，我想在你提到很多新加坡投資者都在關注日本市場，這顯然是為了擴大市場。我只想知道，到目前為止你的經歷如何？很明顯，日本市場也受到了嚴重打擊。我只想知道你對此的看法。你覺得怎麼樣從長遠來看？
Darren ：是的，我想我認識的一些人也有類似的經歷，他們經常去的地方旅行，然後愛上了這個地方。我覺得房地產行業的人是因為他們愛上了那些沒人能看到的東西，他們開始變得嘿，我其實知道很多事情。然後他們開始向更深的方向發展，他們剛剛進入，偶然發現了這個行業。我覺得是你提到的東西因為我曾經工作過——我們以前的項目之一，我在新宿的一棟住宅樓裏工作。然後同樣的事情，就像，你知道的，在日本，找到一個會說英語的人其實並不容易。尤其是在房地產行業，這會產生巨大的影響因為你知道，當你在海外的時候，你會找到一個可以和你聯系和交談的人，我們真的節省了很多時間，你知道，很多時候，如果你一直忘了人們的不同文化，他們解釋的管道，這樣你就不想讓他們之間產生任何誤會，所以我們提到，你知道，找到一個用英語的人，可以說英語。很多人都沒意識到在日本，小團體的人能說得很好，也能交流。但這是非常重要的，如果你不會說這種語言，找一個可以說其他語言的人，這是一個很多頭痛，我之前已經解釋過了，這並不容易。
Darren ：日本是你知道，日本本身也是一個娛樂中心，所以我認為你肯定可以做很多事情。不僅僅是因為我的感情，因為我愛在日本，聽到你說你至少每年都回去，我希望我能像每兩三年做一次。每次我去那裡都像“哇，我不想離開這個國家”，你知道那裡很美，很好，很好食物，一切都很好；每個人都很好，只是很漂亮。但你知道，我認為這是個好建議，對觀眾來說是個好主意。當我告訴人們，你知道，發生了什麼事，讓那些可能有興趣瞭解的人知道，我會從你這裡或那裡偷一些東西關於新加坡房地產和不同的房地產，我們建議他們如何與您聯系並與您進行更多的交談？
Darren ：我明白了，我認為這是一個很好的總結一切的方法，顯然我會把所有的東西都寫在節目筆記中。感謝你的努力，感謝你的努力因為我認為你對很多觀眾的地理位置、情感和見解有了更多的瞭解，我肯定會從中受益匪淺。謝謝你，我真的希望我們能和你一起做第二部分。我們正在考慮在未來做一個更長的形式來更多地討論他們的旅程，我們讓其他專家一起分享不同的見解。所以我真的希望我們有第二部分，我真的很感激，你知道，我會送你我的生日。
Hong Kong Real Estate: COVID-19 Impact and Outlook with Simon Yu
Connect with Simon Yu:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonyu89/
Hong Kong Real Estate: COVID-19 Impact and Outlook with Simon Yu
The real estate sector has always played a major role in Hong Kong. The city is one of the world’s most densely populated places in the world and is a part of the Greater Bay Area (“GBA”). In recent years, the city has been facing multiple crises and challenges, politically, socially and economically; various degrees of uncertainty appears to be rising to all residents and different stakeholders regarding the Hong Kong property market.
Today’s episode with Simon presents a concise view of the latest Hong Kong real estate situation as he shares his observations and opinions on the new strategies adopted by landowners, investors or future investors in Hong Kong.
Simon Yu is a real estate broker in Hong Kong. He has been in the Hong Kong real estate brokerage business for almost a decade and is now focusing mainly on investment/development projects working primarily with institutional clients including developers, real estate funds as well as family offices.
What does the future hold for Hong Kong real estate market?
How are the stakeholders dealing during the crisis?
Which entities are still looking into investing in Hong Kong property industry and why?
Are there specific areas to look into in terms of investing in Hong Kong?
What challenges should investors be prepared for?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
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Sources:
Greater Bay Area:
The Greater Bay Area is a megapolis that consists of nine cities from Guangdong province, a province situated in Southern China, along with two special administrative regions, HongKong and Macau. It is also known as the Pearl River Delta. The concept is a scheme by the Chinese government to deepen the cooperation between the involved regions as well as developing the nation’s economy.
https://www.bayarea.gov.hk/en/about/overview.html
Real Estate Broker:
A real estate broker is a step above a real estate agent. A broker generally has more training and subject-matter education than an agent, but not always. A real estate broker can work independently or hire real estate salespersons to work under them. The exact rules can vary among countries, but most have somewhat similar requirements.
An institutional investor is a company or organization that invests money on behalf of other people. Mutual funds, pensions, and insurance companies are examples. Institutional investors often buy and sell substantial blocks of stocks, bonds, or other securities and real estate investments. The group is also viewed as more sophisticated than the average retail investor and, in some instances, are subject to less restrictive regulations.
The capital market is a venue where entities are united to exchange their financial products. These entities can be a company, business, a group of people or government. The exchanges mostly occur between two parties, with one party being the investors or suppliers of capital, and the other being those in need of capital. The most typical capital market is the stock market.
CBD refers to a certain part of a city with a lot of businesses within. Although this specific part is often the city centre, it can be away from the centre to anywhere in the city, as long as the place has a convenient transportation route. CBD has a large number of offices, banks, and other high-rise buildings. It is also known as a “financial district”.
Darren:So for the audience that’s tuned in. So Simon and I have been friends for quite some time. And we have never had this kind of format to talk about his skill sets and experience and everything. So, Simon, thanks for coming in because it’s something that I’ve always want to ask you more about.
Simon: Of course, thanks. Thanks for having me on the show. Good opportunity. Happy to share.
Darren: That’s good. So when we begin, would you mind telling the audience more about yourself and your work?
Simon: Yeah. Hi, everyone. I’m Simon, your Real Estate Transaction Specialist currently working in Hong Kong. I’ve been in the real estate brokerage business for almost a decade now. Currently spending most of my time on investment/redevelopment deals, and working with institutional clients. I actually focus on dealing with family offices and also real estate funds. And a little bit of my personal background, I was born in Hong Kong and grew up in Toronto and Canada. I’ve spent, I think, likewise to you similar background, Darren, I spend a reasonable time in both West and East parts of the world. Having decided to return to Asia after my studies, I, my passion has always been meeting new people, and building meaningful relationships. And it’s extremely satisfying when you are, I guess, able to learn new skills engage, engaging like minded individuals throughout the journey. Hence I think today have this lovely interview with your new mentor, so thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.
Darren: That’s good. No worries. I mean, a lot of people in the industry knows who you are already so I’m sure everyone wants to know more about your information anyway.
Simon: Yeah I mean some.
Darren: No, no, you’re very humble. But first of all right because a lot audience might not understand what a commercial real estate agent is. Would you mind telling the audience what’s a typical day like for you like a commercial real estate agent? And what do you do in a daily basis?
Simon: Sure. Thank you. Well, I guess to start off further on an introduction, I happen to have an opportunity, fortunate enough to deal with different clients. So when I first came back from I guess, returning to Asia, I specialized more in the leasing sector. And now in the capital markets team, so more on the institutional clients. So I guess a typical day as a broker, meeting clients, connecting with individuals, so dating back, I think, staying relevant with the market and connecting with the clients. That will be my short answer for my hat in the capital markets sector. So, sizable transaction if you will, anything relating with real estate be that a you know, some sort of tenants movement or new developments in the city because I specialize in Hong Kong of course, and capital investments like especially in the equity market, so, stock market also do have some impact. So, I would say to channel the right messages to the proper audience in order to create value would be my objective. So, you know, physically speaking, because we have, you know, the new office, you know, we have now agile working ABW. So, you know, a typical day talking to different people, communicating with different colleagues in various lines of businesses, and, you know, coming into the office and going out to meet clients, I would say will be a typical day for me.
Darren: So would that be fair to say that like your role is a connector, and if a landlord or a funds or a buyer or seller want to know more about what’s going on, you’ll be the person that people will talk to you and say, “Hey, what’s going on?” And then what kind of service exactly like when you say like, connecting, what does that even mean?
Simon: Yeah, I’m mean, connecting just like what we’re doing now. Right? I would say the fundamental would be the education part. So what are some relevant things that are relevant? So say, for example, you have a property residential property, in Hong Kong, then most likely, you will want to understand what developments that will be happening around your area, you know, who has been investing and who will be or currently looking to invest around I think those are the topics that I would be referring to. So I would say you yes, a connector a new sense thats relating to all real estate aspect. Does that answer your question? You know, that makes sense?
Darren: Yeah its fine. I just for like— cause you know, my background, I used to work in real estate fund so I kind of understand how it’s like, but then for the audience they might not understand like, you know, it’d be hard to grasp but we can go back a little bit later on. And then something that I want to ask you to personally is because we’re both in Hong Kong and Hong Kong has been having a lot of ups and downs for the past, you know, a couple months. How does it affect the real estate market?
Simon: Well, short answer, the increase of uncertainty that grows, I guess, across the board, right. For people living here, for people who plan to come in, I think the uncertainty has been increasing in the investment market, it’s probably not a good thing to have right? Again, I believe there’s always good and bad for everything. There’s always opportunities in every market, though it may be tougher to seek opportunities in general right now. So we have been faced with tough times. You’re right, in the past month, and I guess, almost a year now, right. Since the trade war, and then we have the social unrest, and now the COVID-19 situation. So my opinion is that the business and individuals will probably need some time to be more, I guess, adaptive and creative and collaborative, relatively speaking, compared with other financial cities in the world, Hong Kong, do still have, in my opinion, strong fundamentals, with the supports, the talents, you know, mixture of east and west. I don’t think in other competing cities we’ll be, you know, having those elements just like that. So I still believe in the system and the place so well, it’s a matter of time that will sort of bounce back again.
Darren: Hmm. I see. So in terms of the real estate, capital inflow and outflow of Hong Kong how has it changed since the change of sentiment?
Simon: I guess that’s a very good question. Inflow, due to uncertainty, as I was saying, definitely has impacted. Businesses are more cautious to come in. So slower inflow definitely. From what we said just earlier, trade war and social unrest, I would say it’s a little more political now. Some of the positions, as you are probably aware.
Simon: So since I guess, when you talk about the change of sentiment, right, COVID-19 is sort of like the global pandemic, so it’s probably not a significant impact compared to the other two as people are less mobile for the traveling restriction, that also will impact the inflow of capital. I guess the main challenge for Hong Kong, since we’re at a very, I guess, geographically in a very compact place, we have a very few great real estate opportunities. And compared to perhaps like Singapore, similar to other tier one cities, price gaps are usually wide for core assets, so that creates some challenges for investors. You know, people who have deep pockets or would be would be the ones that look at Hong Kong. So, in terms of outflow, though, we have been witnessing, you know, diversification through expansion overseas, family offices and local developers have been taking advantage of a situation like Brexit in the year or two years prior to overseas opportunity. So for institutional clients, I still look forward to deals coming in and out to Hong Kong and they’re in a mid to short term because Hong Kong being the you know, still the gateway non Asia funds still want to enter the China market as well main Chinese funds and developers are looking to expand overseas so Hong Kong relatively speaking would probably be beneficial.
Darren: I see, that’s pretty good to kind of give people a picture of what’s going on here. So I want something that focuses— because you know there are a lot of things happening for the past couple months right? Let’s focus on the virus situation because that’s something that even to me I’m kind of curious like how does a landlord or estate owner react to the situation now? What did they do to help out the whole society because of the whole virus pandemic?
Simon: Sure. I think you have, first of all you if I were to paint a picture, you have different scales of ownerships, right. So you have small tenants, I mean, small landlords, big landlords, ie., portfolio landlords. So, for COVID-19, especially, I would say most landlords think it is a temporary, you know, circumstance or scenario. I think Hong Kong being a very resilient city, after the fact that we have gone through SARS, in 2003. We have been actually quite, you know, agile in terms of, I guess, agile and strong ond adaptive on the whole Covid situation, if you were to ask, right. So, like you hear in the news, retail hospitality sectors has been impacted negatively. Quite, quite significantly, actually. So some landlord has been quite supportive, to restructure and you know, for rent reduction and whatnot. So especially, I would say, you know, going back to smaller scale landlords, so, for portfolio landlords where you have people or companies who have baskets or assets around the region because they’re listed, and due to the fact that residential sales has also been impacted somewhat so they have been— we have been, I guess, witnessing some dispose or some intention to dispose the non core assets across Hong Kong. So that actually created opportunities for some end users/occupiers who now could have the opportunity to own their real estate, right. So say, for example, a family office, then now could not just lease an office, they could have their own office in Hong Kong. So that actually brings some good news to some individuals who of course, again, going back to the point that they have sufficient cash to do so. So in summary, I would say the virus enables landlords to rethink their real estate strategy to consolidate or reallocate where they want to do their businesses.
Darren: I think that’s a pretty good picture for all of us. In that regard, right in terms of people seeing opportunity in Hong Kong, what type of people are coming in when it comes to like investors or tenants? What is their background or nationality, was the— you know where they came from? Do you have any kind of suggestions or pointers on that?
Simon: Right. As I said, I guess in my points earlier, I would say institutional clients are still strong. They still have interest in coming to Hong Kong. Especially now they have been seeing some adjustments on some smaller scale landlords. So, for example, you have older buildings where it’s just owned by a family. They may want to pass down— whatever the reason that they have to let go or dispose their assets, then now the institutional clients would be able to find that opportunity to come into the market. So, I would say primarily institutional clients and also mainland background clients. In terms of tenants, I would say I was again working in the leasing sector, I think any businesses we are driving value right. So, anything relating with community, so also the medical sector, I think, things that you could use or that you need, I would say those are the main things that have been supporting the market.
Darren: Okay, so in turn let’s go back a little bit in what you said just now, institutional firms who are coming in, are they usually for self use or do you see it as an investment to lease out?
Simon: Right, interestingly, I think they would I mean for family offices definitely they are taking an advantage of the geographical location whereby they could do the businesses here and also the tax situation right. So, I think short answer would be for investment entering into the Asia market diversifying their funds.
Darren: I see is there like a few areas that you think in Hong Kong you are more interested in in that scale?Because obviously we talked about like — you can be a retail investor, you can be institutional, or family office, like for example, your clientele tend to be institutional firms and family offices, so is there a certain region in Hong Kong that they tend to be interested to come in because of the whole thing with the virus situation?
Simon: For sure, for sure. I would say core core those are the areas that they tend to focus on. So, anything that is more resilient is the thing that they— and also the lease tenure. So the government lease. So, I mean, in a smaller, I guess more practical example would be anything that perhaps in Hong Kong Island where which you have triple nine year lease, those may probably be something more attractive in comparison to somewhere in decentralized area Kowloon but of course, there are some interesting— you know when you talk about investment It’s just also about returns right. So, if you have tenants who are going into places like in Kowloon east, we still have been seeing more interest due to of course, the emerging CBD 2 or already established CBD 2. So, you know, Kowaniese, location, Hong Kong Island, prime location in Kowloon are always something that investors are interested on. I would say in terms of sector because of the Covid situation, retail has definitely been coming down. So, right now some interests are drawn towards some people, owners who are suffering but of course, some of these opportunities are not really cheap or a cheap in a sense that you still need some negotiation to come in to capture the right timing so price gap is still a topic that we always need to focus on.
Darren: I see right, no that’s good because even I’m learning. I’m not that familiar with— I live here but I’m not that familiar with the real estate here. Also, I know that you mentioned CBD 2 and I only learned about what CBD one two and three means. From a conference I went last year ULI conference so would you mind explaining to the audience like in within Hong Kong, CBD 1 2 3 what are those areas and why is it important to learn about those kind of different areas.
Simon: Right, well, I’m not a disclaimer, I’m not an expert. No city planning or anything but in terms of a common practice, I guess a norm point of view, I would say Traditional CBD would probably be anything around a central and roti perhaps one try Causeway Bay, those are what we call it traditional CBD in the Hong Kong Island site. Based on a government issued initiative probably 10 to 15 years ago they planned to have Kowaniese right next to the airport of the old airport Kai tak be CBD 2. So, what we generally say CBD 2 would be anywhere between, you know Kwun Tong, a local district called auto calc and also Kowloon Bay, those areas are classified as CBD 2. Where by then you have of course, when you have CBD, investments in infrastructure, and also of course, other amenities supports are tend to follow. So I’m not too sure about what CBD three is because we don’t have like a, you know, formal classification yet, though some landlords are looking to claim themselves CBD 3 in some areas. So I don’t have a model answer for it.
Darren: Yeah. I think that CBT 2 although is a east Hong Kong island side like Quarry Bay and you know, Tycoon area, I believe so, and I think they’re proposing CBT 3, should be somewhere near the border, where people can also commute between the port border from Shenzhen and also from Hong Kong side. But I’m sure these are only jargon to say that what’s the potential infrastructure in real estate opportunities are, which is, you know, is very— I think it’s kind of important to know where they are. So going back to be a connector, right. So and I’m sure like for the past couple years, a lot of people talk about the greater Bay Area and about how there’s so much potential and how much opportunity there would be. What’s your viewpoint on that? And then how would you think what affects interest of Hong Kong real estate markets?
Simon: Yep. Honestly, Greater Bay has been on topic long ago already, in my opinion. I wouldn’t say you know, about the future. It’s more like now, in my opinion. So, I mean, we are already seeing a lot of investments going in, though, there are still you know, some mismatch in terms of I would say, finding the right opportunities to go in will be the current situation. I guess from the recent announcement from you know, the Chinese party, Hainan free zone, will be the next thing that goes on from until 2025. I guess that’s off topic. But, you know, that’s more like the future, I would say. And yes, when we talk about real estate, I always, you know, correlate demographics, movement of people, I think increasing connectivity of the whole Southern parts of the Greater Bay, you talking about connecting different cities and regions of the southern part of China. Most, you know, real estate in the region would probably benefit. I would say the benefit in the whole Bay Area. So as Hong Kong is positioned strategically at the bay, outward towards Southeast Asia whatnot as an international financial Metropolis, listed companies will be coming to Hong Kong and go on public. So people workers will be traveling in and out of Hong Kong, immediately, you know, if you can imagine, you would be having increase in demand and residential properties as people need to probably come in and work and live here, though some people argue that, you know, likewise people will move north, right. So I think is a healthy relationship, honestly. So you are expanding a territory whereby you have people coming in and out. And if you talk about, you know, the whole size of Hong Kong, in terms of, I guess, territory, compared to the rest of China, and given it’s very high density. I’m not too concerned about them stealing our demand, if you will. I mean, I’m not saying that you were implying that question. I think it was just building upon each other. So that’s probably my view on the Greater Bay Area.
Darren: I mean, like, I know nothing about Hong Kong real estate or Chinese real estate. I kind of feel like, the more I know, I know less. And to me just I’m just curious because like, you know, it’s just something that has a lot of advertising, or a lot of people talking about greater Bay Area as if the ‘promised land.’ And so from my point of view it’s for Denzity insights for myself, if I’ve been just curious about it, I’m sure a lot of people will be curious and want to know more from you as well.
Simon: I mean, the promise land, I’m not sure.
Darren: It’s a metaphor.
Simon: I know. But I mean, it’s more like I think for me to explain, I’m probably not an expert, because I don’t go to you know, the Greater Bay, all the cities I haven’t visited, of course, given we’re on the topic I try to learn more about, you know, different cities and what they could offer right, so just a short example some where some city may have better healthcare systems or whatnot, or better history. So I think it’s just mixing people together. And if you were to identify them by different skill set then they could just go to different places for different tasks. So try to allocate resources correctly.
Darren: That’s cool. Yeah. So, going back to the whole learning and expertise or skill sets, because in your point of view, right, like, obviously we are all, we’re both learning about the Greater Bay area and, you know, real estate professionals tend to be location focused, do you feel like your scope would increase because of this whole, you know, bridging between different places in Greater Bay area, and then do you feel like as a commercial real estate agent yourself, how would you plan to, to do that? To learn about it? And then do you plan to expand your scope, do more work in connecting different sides, like, I just want to know— if people listen to this and thinks, “Hey, I’m a Commercial Real Estate Agent, what should I do?” Like, how would you suggest?
Simon: I think I mean, that’s a partial personal question, right? So I think it’s a fact that whether a person is more towards open minded thinking. So going back to my introduction, one of my passions, or the reason why I enjoy what I do and have motivation on the industry is because I do want to learn new things and meet new people, right? When you do that, I think it’s important to stay relevant, as I was saying, and I guess one of the questions, that’s my typical day, I believe in there’s a healthy correlation off the fact that you know, that the more you know, the better, the higher likelihood of you solving bigger problems, right. So the bigger problem that you solve is likely that the more money that you make, right or more successful you become, whatever that means. So, that might be a more personal question, so yes, I mean, and spending enough time to learn, right, so, I think one of the challenges is that we have to allocate our own resources carefully on how much we want to input right.
Darren: Yeah like even the way you talk about it in this video, and also like just knowing you personally, you always have a very strong theme about connecting and just servicing someone if they need some help. So I think it’s something that’s, you know, is very loud, into very cohesive, kind of like value that obviously, as a friend, I really appreciate that too. You know, it’s something that’s weird. It’s like the real estate sector, the more you know, the less you really know, because it’s so huge. So, and also too, right as something that like, you know, away from just investing as a whole because, you know, we’re both in the Prop tech institute together, the association about property tech to learn more about it, I want to know, how, because property tech is something that you know, still new in a sector, people still don’t even know what’s going on. Why can you spill out more time on investing, do other kinds of services, get different types of licenses and stuff like that, but why would you dedicate your time more on property tech?
Simon: Well, I would say, there are different parts and different parts and answers to the question. I guess for the last part, different licenses and all, you know, I’m not that academically smart, I think. I think the value that you create is about helping, not helping others per se but it’s about answering people question or solving people’s problem, right? So you can know everything in the world, but if you don’t exercise it, then it’s pointless, meaningless, right. So, I think that’s why fundamentally when I decided to come back to Asia, where opportunities are more, compared to different parts of the world, relatively speaking, it’s the reason why I decided to continue on doing what I do. So I guess that answers, you know, the first part of the question. And of course, when we encounter different tasks or different scenarios, we tend to meet more interesting people, like minded people and then you have a like minded group that sort of intrinsically or naturally already have a group or community to be continued.
Darren: Hmm, I see. No, I think that’s pretty good. It’s just something that like, you know, myself I’m curious too, right. I think because we both have a really good friend, Chris, who makes us feel really insecure because he’s too smart and challenges us. So you know I feel like this conversation we can go on for another hour if we can, because there’s lots of things that even in my head I haven’t asked yet, but I kind of want to do this long form video in the future so hopefully you can join us next time for that.
Simon: Sure. I mean, to speak with other people as well, I think we could jump in and breakout room or something, right?
Darren: Yeah, yeah yeah. I mean, Denzity insights is meant for learning different insights and tips from different experts, right. And then for us, we were thinking that, hey, maybe next time, we can go for like a very specific topic. Or we can even go for different guests in the journey. Like even your journey is very interesting, you know. So I think that’s something that we can do. So before we go away, what kind of takeaway would you like the audience to have from this video?
Simon: Ah, I mean, I don’t know who the audience are. I mean, we do have a focus real estate focus. I think generally speaking, just to be again, to my point, being relevant is I try to do that every day as well. Be open minded. I think that’s a very simple thing that everyone could do. You know, being open minded could to your lens would mean that if you had a negative feeling about this market today, or this in sector today doesn’t mean that it’s not going to flourish tomorrow. So, you know, that sort of applies to, I guess, real estate markets, who knows what will happen tomorrow? You know, what if we don’t have that vaccine, then we need to think of something different, right. So, you know, problem with I guess aging is that you stay, sort of close minded, right. And you feel like know, so I think the community that we feel like we are building is something that a channels the the message as well, right. So to be open minded.
Darren: That’s really good. Thank you. I think I thought about real estate stuff talking about philosophy I was like, “Wow that’s kind of deep.” So for people who you know, the right audience, who are trying to find out more about real estate, Hong Kong real estate, and they want to find you. What are some ways that you suggest people to reach out to you?
Simon: Just LinkedIn, LinkedIn. Or you know you could always find Darren, and you can get my number.
Darren: It’s that easy?
Simon: Yeah, LinkedIn probably be more professional if you were to talk about business. Otherwise, email I mean, yeah, LinkedIn, you have an email anyway.
Darren: Yeah. So I’ll include everything in the show notes and then description of the video. And I just want to say thank you, Simon. Thanks for sharing and I hope the audience gets something out of it. And until next time, then, thank you.
Simon: Sure. Thank you.
Darren:Alright talk to you later alright, bye.
Simon: Bye. ===
Darren ：嗨，Simon，歡迎來到節目。
Simon：嘿，Darren ，很高興見到你。
Darren ：所以收聽的觀眾。Simon和我是好朋友已經有一段時間了。我們從來沒有這樣的形式來談論他的技能和經驗。所以，Simon，謝謝你的到來，因為這是我一直想問你更多的事情。
Darren ：是的。我認為CBT 2雖然是一個像鰂魚一樣的東港島，你知道，大亨區，我相信是的，我認為他們建議CBT 3，應該在靠近邊境的地方，在那裡人們可以從深圳和香港往返於港口邊界。但我相信，這些只是術語來說明房地產機會中潜在的基礎設施是什麼，也就是說，你知道，非常-我認為知道它們在哪裡很重要。所以回去做連接，對吧。所以，我確信在過去的幾年裏，很多人都在談論大灣區，談論那裡有多麼大的潜力，會有多少機會。你對此有何看法？那麼，你認為什麼會影響香港房地產市場的利益？
Real estate investment is always a serious topic. We’re talking about spending a lot of your hard-earned money in one place. You will wish you have someone reliable to talk to about this. However, if you’re in your 30s, chances are, your friends don’t know much about real estate investments too. I suppose you can ask your parents, but things certainly have changed since they last invested in real estate.
Real estate investment is always a serious topic. We’re talking about spending a lot of your hard-earned money in one place. You will wish you have someone reliable to talk to about this. However, if you’re in your 30s, chances are, your friends don’t know much about real estate investments too. I suppose you can ask your parents, but things certainly have changed since they last invested in real estate.
That’s why Denzity is born. As
passionate tech lovers and real estate experts, Denzity cofounders Darren Wong,
Joseph Cheng, and Chris Brewer want to solve this problem. And so they did.
Created to simplify the real estate investment process, Denzity is the new age
technological solution to all your real-estate related troubles.
Want to find real estate experts and professional opinions about your
preferred oversea market, maybe the Malaysia real estate market? It is easy to find someone in Hong
Kong specialized in the Hong Kong real estate market, however, it is not the
same story with oversea real estate investment, especially for smaller markets
like the Malaysia real estate market. Instead of looking up Malaysia real
estate agents on questionable sites, try Denzity’s comprehensive directory with
over 1,800 real estate agents from all around the globe. You can look up
information about agents specialized in different fields, study their insights on
a particular market or real estate branch, and interact with them and other real
estate enthusiasts in case of any uncertainties.
Want to learn more about a certain topic in the real estate industry,
let’s say Feng Shui settings of a flat or the application of artificial
intelligence in the real estate market? For real estate amateurs, it can be difficult
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Want to meet other real estate enthusiasts and share common challenges
faced by real estate investors? Real estate investment is not like watching football. If you want to
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to someone in a bar and talk to them. Denzity’s forum feature can be your
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industry for a few years, Denzity founder Darren Wong knows how frustrating it
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today to satisfy your real-estate needs.
Malaysia has been a preferred retirement destination for people around the world, mostly because of its diverse culture and tropical climate. But can all foreign nationals own a property in Malaysia?
Today’s video with Amos is not only about the Malaysian property market, but it also gives us a clear picture of the country’s geographical state, lifestyle and the renowned MM2H program.
How is the Malaysia real estate market categorized?
What aspects should you look into while investing in a property in Malaysia?
Which areas are being promoted by the government?
Are you eligible for the MM2H program? What does it do and why do you need it?
How does Malaysia’s leasing market work?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:
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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
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Darren: Hey Amos, welcome to the show.
Amos: Hey, Darren, thanks for inviting me to your show.
Darren: Mmhmm. It’s kind of exciting because as we have had a chat before this, it’s that I met you through a friend of a friend, and your friends also in Malaysia doing the real estate market, commercial and other aspects. And then for myself, I haven’t been in Malaysia for a long, long time, I think for more than a decade. A lot of people— my friends always keeps saying that Malaysia’s real estate market is booming. There’s a lot of opportunities there. So I really want to talk to you to know more about it, and it’s something that the audience should be aware of when it comes to investing in real estate in Malaysia. So, before that, right, would you mind giving the audience a little bit about yourself, and then your work?
Amos: All right. Thanks, Darren. My name is Amos Jeremiah, and you can call me Amos, AJ Lim. Okay, I’m currently a Probationary Estate Agent in Dreamvest Realty. And what is a probationary estate agent I would like to explain first. So, in Malaysia, if you want to get a real estate agent license, it’s actually a five years process. The whole property market is governed by The Board Valuers and Appraisers of Estate Agents, which we call the Bovaea. So in order to get in as a Real Estate Agent, you need to pass 12 subjects for the first two years to get your diploma in property essay, and then a two years process to write down the activities that you do as an agent. And the final years, we will get to interview with The Board to get our license. Okay, so now I’m in the midst of the process. I’ve done my diploma in real estate and I’m doing my Probationary Estate Agent at Dreamvest. So here in Dreamvest, we actually provide services in Malaysia— we call it A to Z. So how do we see A to Z? From analyzing and giving you the right data to analyze the property and to purchase the rent and or, purchase property and the insurance of your property, and we manage and rent your investment. So basically we guide you from A to Z in your property investment journey. Okay, so besides being an agent, I’m also involved in other companies that are doing Corporate Planning, and also Business Advisory. So basically today in Denzity, I’m not going to just talk about the property market. I’m actually going to talk about how to register your company here in Malaysia. How to register yourself in Malaysia second home program, we call it MM2H (Malaysia 2nd Home). And also we will talk about the property market here.
Darren: That’s great, because that’s something that I think is tied together, right? Because some people might need to incorporate a company to hold the assets. So I think what you are offering right now is a better deal of service too. And it’s pretty interesting too. So five years is a progress to get a license. That’s kind of like going to school again, right? So do you practice and go to school at the same time? Or is it more like you have to be in the industry for five years in order to get a license?
Amos: Oh, yes, you have to go. You have to go for your diploma. And most of the agents, the real estate agents, there’s two licenses actually, one is the real estate negotiator. The real estate negotiator only requires three days of training. They pay a fee, and enroll in and you can be a negotiator in three days time. But if you want to get a license, which means that you can hire 50 agents. So that is like you get a business license. You can open your real estate agency. So it’s a different thing. Most of the agents here in Malaysia work as an agent, and they take the part time course and diplomas and night courses to get the license.
Darren: Wow. That’s a lot of work, but then the three days to be a Real Estate Negotiator, a lot of people would take 30 or 40 years to be a good negotiator in real estate, all jokes aside, but that’s pretty cool.
Amos: Oh well, to be an experienced negotiator, of course you need to take about 40 years, but you know, to get the basic rules and regulation that we need it is just governed by the board. So we have to go through the courses and be eligible to be a negotiator.
Darren: Oh, really? Okay. And also, is there a way to find out if the person is licensed or not? Is there a way to search?
Amos: Oh, yeah. Every every negotiator or every real estate agent will have a working pass from The Board. So upon completing your three-day course as a negotiator, you get a boarding pass. It’s like a working pass, but it’s from The Board. You get the Real Estate Negotiator number and the Real Estate Agent number.
Darren: Oh, yeah. That’s what I was going to ask. Is there a way to search online for people who are investing overseas and stuff like that?
Amos: Yes, usually all the agents will attach their negotiators numbers or agent numbers, yeah, and even hanging a banner in Malaysia, it actually requires a proper Real Estate Negotiator license so that you are allowed to put a banner or any type form of advertisement. So this way I would say that it’s pretty safe to invest in Malaysia as in the property market is governed properly by The Board. So all the rules and regulations I think yeah, no hanky panky, all clean business.
Darren: Yeah, I think after this comment I’m going to ask you how to find out if the agent is licensed or not, because that’s something that even for us, we really want to make sure our audiences know how to find out some bad actors or good actors across the globe, right. So that’s actually very helpful. And I want to go back a little bit about the Malaysian market; It’s something that I’m sure excited to know more about. So for some audience that might not know much about the different regions in Malaysia, would you mind briefly describing how the city is made up? And how are a few areas that oversea investors tend to invest in?
Amos: All right, Malaysia is basically divided into two main geographical regions. One is the West Malaysia, which is the Peninsula, Malaysia, and the other one is the Malaysian Borneo, which is the East Malaysia. So most of the main cities in Malaysia are located in Peninsula, Malaysia. So let’s say Penang. Penang is on the north of the Peninsula, which is right beside Thailand.
Okay, so I would say in Penang, the culture is more like Taiwan because they are speaking Hokien and speaking Mandarin. Okay, and then we go down to the city, the capital city of Malaysia, which is Kuala Lumpur. So I was I was rear facing in Kuala Lumpur. So Kuala Lumpur is the primary market, alright the most active market in Malaysia, okay. I am living in Johor Bahru, which is the south of Malaysia with the south of Peninsular Malaysia. It’s actually only 15 minutes away from Singapore. So at the East Malaysia, there is Sabah and Sarawak. Currently Sabah and Sarawak are developing really fast and a lot of foreign investors are looking towards Sabah, Sarawak as well. But I am raised in KL and my business is all in JB. So I think I will talk more about the Kuala Lumpur and Johor Bahru market for today.
Darren: That’s great because I think that as a Real Estate Agent, people don’t realize that you’re more than just an agent; you’re a tour guide, you’re someone who will be like “Okay, what street should you invest in in order to understand the culture. What area is good?” So the knowledge is very insightful when it comes to great details like which block and which streets people should look into. So I’m sure that you can obviously focus on your expertise so I really appreciate that. So you know, like I said before in the introduction, Malaysia real estate market has been very hot topic in a very few circles that I’m in. What’s the reason behind this trend and how do you think it will be evolved in the upcoming years?
Amos: Okay, so first of all, I will say that Malaysia is a very peaceful place to live in. Because first thing is that we are living in a multicultural place where we have multi-races here in Malaysia; we have the Malay, we have Chinese, we have Indians, and a lot of many other cultures. So in Malaysia, we can say that we have the most festive seasons. And you can find any cuisine here in Malaysia, which a lot of tourists like to come. And they can see huge varieties of different cultures here. So that’s the First point. And the second point is that Malaysia is a developing country. And we have plenty of land. And a lot of new developments have been moving so when it’s a developing country, it means that there is a lot of room to invest and to expand. So that’s probably the second point why people want to come to Malaysia. The third point I will say is that we are a tropical country. We have consistent weather throughout the whole year. Because I’m living in Puteri Harbour, Johor Bahru and there are a lot of Koreans, even Hong Kong people, Taiwanese, they’ve bought property here. So I’ve spoke to a lot of seniors in Korea, and asked them like, “Why do you choose Malaysia?” and a lot of them say that this is a very good place for retirement. They have consistent weather, it’s by the beach, every day is windy. So like a few Koreans actually gave me feedback when they are in Korea. So sometimes during winter time they have their bone achings and body pain. And after shifting here, they get the consistent weather and they feel really comfortable staying here.
Darren: That’s great, that’s great. I feel like when I’m in Hong Kong the weather’s not terrible, but then it sounds like I need a vacation. It sounds like I need to find somewhere in Malaysia, maybe have a sip of you know, cocktail and relax a little bit. So, you know, like Malaysia is a big place and a lot of people obviously think that like, you know, not every area is going to be great. So I was just wondering, right. Do you think some of the areas that you mentioned before about Malaysia, is a bit overrated and or overpriced?
Amos: Okay. Darren, I will say, in Malaysia, I mean, everywhere in the world, there are overrated projects, there are overrated properties. Okay, so it happens in KL, it happens in JB. But since I’m living here in JB in Puteri Harbour, I’m going to use Puteri Harbour as an example. For Puteri Harbour, it’s just you know, there are two links that link Singapore to Malaysia. So Puteri Harbour is located right at the second link. So the master plan in Puteri Harbour is great. The the public transport master plan is great, but it’s a new city here. So they are selling all the properties around 1000 ringgit per square feet, which is very cheap for any first world country but it’s a prestige for Malaysians. So how do you say overrated a lot of places with good master plans like Puteri Harbour, is only overrated for the time being. Like maybe in five to ten years time it’s going to be a highly dense, populated place because of the second link, which is very new. So I would say in general in Malaysia, the only overrated property happens when there are greedy developers. All right, the developers, they’ve been put in a lot of features, they try to market it at a very nice package and they give you cash back, instant cash back upon purchasing a property and you get a property with a value that is not supposed to be that expensive I would say. So first of all, we need to identify, how do we categorize an overpriced or overrated property. I would say that you purchase a property and you can rent it out, or you rent it out at a very low rate, where you face negative cash flow every month. That’s one reason why investors don’t want to get into purchasing a property because they are not able to rent it out. And it’s happening all over Malaysia. So, I would say that there are many things that we need to be careful with and do a proper analysis before we make a purchase of any property. And also the background of the developer.
Darren: That’s a very good point that a lot of people keep forgetting. So in terms of like investors as I said before, people that might have moved there from Korea or Japan or Taiwan, Hong Kong and stuff like that. So how would you suggest differently for investors they are either planning to use it for themselves or investment only?
Amos: Okay, this is a good question I will categorize this for personal use and investment into two main market which is the primary market and the secondary market. If you are looking for investment purposes, you definitely look at the primary market. So, what is the primary market primary market is usually the city center like Kuala Lumpur, okay. So in Kuala Lumpur basically there are few hotspots where we can call it the primary market like the area beside KLCC (KLCC is the Petronas Twin Tower), it’s the nineth tallest building right now in the world.
Darren: The very famous one right?
Amos: Yeah, it’s a Twin Tower. Yeah. So, when we are looking into investment, we definitely want property with multiple rent options. It means that you have rent options to the tourists. You have rent option to the students, you have rent options to the locals. So basically we need multiple rent, when we need multiple rent, we need a place that is the primary market which is like KLCC, Bangsar or Mont Kiara. It’s all the hotspots for the foreigners and stuff. Yeah, so when it comes to long term use for your own use purposes I will suggest a secondary market. Secondary Market is usually further away from the city, but it’s still in Kuala Lumpur. It’s still in Selangor. I would say Selangor and Kuala Lumpur together because they are just right beside each other and the whole development in Kuala Lumpur for Malaysians— we categorize Selangor and Kuala Lumpur together all right. So in the secondary market, you will have more locals staying and you have nicer neighborhoods and nicer neighborhoods that are tailored for the locals and for personal use. So I will say that if you inquire in, I will give you the data and analysis of the differences between the primary sector and secondary sector and we can make decisions based on this.
Darren: Ah that’s pretty helpful because I didn’t know that before. And you mentioned before in the introduction that not only do you do property related— it’s something called, I heard when we checked before it’s called the Malaysian: My Second Home. What was that about? And does it apply to foreigners or only for locals and how does that affect or impact the real estate market?
Amos: Okay, MM2H, Malaysia Second home is a program promoted by the government to allow foreigners to get a social visa that can last for 10 years. Okay, so if you apply MM2H and you get a social visa, basically you can come into Malaysia multiple times, or you can stay in Malaysia for 10 years. Okay, so the things that I like about MM2H is that it disregards which country you came from, your race, your religion, okay, there is no restriction on any of this all right. But there are certain requirements that you need to have to be able to apply for this. So, let’s say for any countries, if you’re above 50 years old your FD needs to have a value of 350,000 ringgit worth of money in your fixed deposit. The second requirement is that you need to have a job that has a basic salary of at least 10,000 ringgit, okay and if you are 50 years old and below 50 years old, your fixed deposit needs to have 500,000 and at the same time your salary needs to have 10,000 ringgit minimum okay. But there are different scenarios. Like for example, Hong Kong. In Hong Kong the average income that we have the applicants have are usually 40k Hong Kong dollars and above their salary. Which diverts back to like 20,000 ringgit, okay. So if for example, you are from Hong Kong and your salary is around 10,000 ringgit, you are still not eligible to apply for MM2H because first of all, they don’t allow blue collar. And secondly, let’s say Hong Kong is a better standard country; it’s a country with better standards, so the standards for the the salary will be higher compared to some other country. But the basic and the lowest requirement that you need to have is the amount that I that I’ve said earlier for 50 years old and above and below 50 years old.
Darren: So does that mean that within having that MM2H, you can travel a lot back and forth, you can stay longer in Malaysia. Am I correct?
Amos: Yes, you can stay within the 10 years. You can stay 10 years if you’d like to.
Darren: Oh, okay, so it’s like, you’re not really getting the passport, but you’re getting a visa, a very long visa. But in order to be qualified, you have to be an income generating member in society. So I think that’s kind of cool.
Amos: It’s renewable after 10 years.
Darren: That’s a lot. That’s a long time.
Amos: The benefit with this is that people don’t have to give up their citizenship in their country. So it’s not a PR, it’s just a social visit pass.
Darren: Oh, that’s why you guys have that too. So that’s actually a pretty good service that you have together.
Amos: Yeah because if you were really to consider moving to Malaysia, of course, to buy a property in Malaysia, I would suggest that you have to apply yourself in MM2H first before you make any decision in investing. So the application process takes around nine months.
Darren: I see. That’s not too long. That’s okay. I know some visas take like years sometimes and it’s very annoying and stuff like that. So you know, with that saying right, what kind of tips and advice would you suggest for the audience besides MM2H. And is there anything that they should be aware of when it comes to investing in Malaysia’s real estate market?
Amos: Okay, for this point, I think that it’s not just on how to analyze it in Malaysia, I think throughout the whole world, it’s the same thing. First thing, we have to look at the master plan. The master plan means the development around the area, because that definitely affects the price in the long run. Okay, so secondly, it’s the public transport master plan, because that’s, for example, in KL, there are a lot of housing areas where there are a few units that is nearer to the public transport, and it’s a nearer walking distance. And in the long run, the property that is nearer to the public transport actually have a 5% to 10% increment of price compared to the same neighborhood, the same area, same housing area, right. So the public transport master plan is important. And third, we need to see if there is any budget allocated by the government. So there are a few hotspots in in Malaysia where the government is actually promoting and arranging a lot of events like New Year events, Chinese New Year events. Any events, they will put like firecrackers and stuff to keep the flow of people going to the place. So the allocation of budget from the government is very important. And then what is the economy drivers? Okay. So for example, the cities with Disneyland would definitely have an impact on the property price around them because they have more tourists. So, let’s say KLCC In Malaysia. If you buy properties around KLCC, if you know what you’re doing, you can flip them and earn money from it or you can do a lot of things from it. And the final one is, is there any job creation. Like there is a lot of cities in China, they are diverting the cities into IoT Hub. Okay, so same as Puteri Harbour, the place where I’m living, they are actually promoting a lot of Coworking space for IT students and IT R&B departments to participate for free. So those are the areas where they actually create more job creations. And the final one, of course, you need to know the background of a developer and the credibility of the developer before purchasing it.
Darren: Yeah just don’t find a greedy one.
Amos: Yeah don’t find the greedy one, that’s correct.
Darren: That’s hard, that’s hard. I think a lot of people when it comes to Hong Kong, they keep thinking about, “Okay, the expert is important,” that means like the real estate agent, but they keep forgetting to do due diligence on the developer and a lot of people might realize that oh, the developer sometimes is more important because some developer under tourists are known to be greedy or scammy or shady and stuff like that. So it’s good that that you pointed out. So you know, just now we talked about buying right, a lot buying and selling side, how about leasing you know, what some key things that oversea investors might not know when it comes to Malaysia leasing markets in terms of like leasing terms or norms.
Amos: Okay in Malaysia, if the contract is within three years we call it a rental agreement. If it’s above three years then we call it a lease agreement. So the basic things in Malaysia is that if you want to rent or you want to lease a property, you have to prepare one month of the rental value— you pay one month for the current month. You pay two months as a security deposit and you pay half month for the utility deposit. So it’s standardized. Anyone that wants to rent or lease a property has to prepare 3.5 months of the value of the rent that you’re looking at. So if you are renting a property that costs 1000 ringgit you need to prepare 3500 ringgit for the initial. So that is if you want to lease or you want to rent. A rent contract usually goes one plus one, or two plus one or just one year. Leasing contracts are usually usually three plus three, or three plus three plus three means that you rent for nine years and it’s subject to adjust the price every three years. So that’s it. So, let’s say if you bought a property here in Malaysia, and you use our services to rent it out, so the real estate agencies usually charge 1.25 for commission as the fee, okay 1.25 as the fee for renting out your unit if it’s within three years, if it’s more than three years, then we will charge 1.5 in an SST sales and tax services.
Darren: I see. So it’s 1.25% of the three years total?
Amos: No, 1.25% of the rental. means that if the rental is 1000 ringgit, the fee is 1250.
Darren: Ah, but do you pay everything in one go or pay on like a monthly basis?
Amos: The fee is paid by the landlord. So when the landlord rents out, the landlord will have collected the 3.5. Right? Yeah. So from the 3.5, the land also gives 1.25.
Darren: So it’s based on how much money that the person received, the landlord received. Then the commission to that when they received the money. I see that. Okay. That’s actually kind of interesting, because it sounds like the leasing term is a lot longer in Malaysia than a lot of different countries. So I used to, like, you know, I focus on UK, Japan a little bit, and then Hong Kong a little bit. And UK tends to be like one year, one and a half year, two years, and so was Japan, and so is Hong Kong, so three years visa is a really long time. So it’s kind of interesting. I’ve never heard of that before.
Amos: Usually the long term lease is more on the factory or land. If it’s only residential it usually be within three years, even though it was just a two plus one, so after two years they can decide to leave, or they can move forward.
Darren: Yeah, I see. So just talking about some areas in Malaysia, right, are there any kind of hip areas that attract a lot of the younger crowd, and that’s willing to pay more rent. In addition, right, what other few places have a lot of commercial activities that we’re looking at?
Amos: That goes back to the primary market, which is KLCC area, Bangsar and Mont Kiara I will saw in Kuala Lumpur. Actually, for foreign investors, the best place is definitely Kuala Lumpur. It’s our capital city. Most of the activities and the things are happening there. So, for example, in Kuala Lumpur, definitely look back to KLCC area. Mont Kiara And bangsar. Yeah, that’s the three main primary market where a lot of commercial activities are happening and events going on.
Darren: Yeah, I see. So, you know, we covered a lot about the residential side, how about the other asset types right? Like let’s say commercial or retail, other like strategy, investment strategies. What do you hear from people in the industry that is very exciting.
Amos: Alright, so besides residential, we look at commercial lots, and also land. In Malaysia, there are plenty of land, agricultural land. So I would say that it depends on which industry you’re in. So once you get connected with me, analyze what industry you’re in, we will then give advice based on the areas which is suitable for your business. If it’s commercial or land.
Darren: Yeah, I see. So you know, for a lot oversea investors, right, they probably need a mortgage. What sort of tips do you have for them?
Amos: Okay, there are a few things that you— maybe some information that you need to know. First thing, the loan margin in Malaysia is 60% or 90%. So for example, if you are buying a property that is worth a million ringgit, the maximum loan you can get is up to 900,000. And you can get 600,000 or 900,000. And the second thing that you need to know is that usually foreigners are allowed to buy only properties above 1,000,000 million ringgit, but there are a few projects and areas where they get the developer license before 2013. The foreigners actually can buy properties that is worth 500,000 ringgit and above.
From the mortgage, or the value of the property, we actually give professional advice based on the field platform in Malaysia. So in Malaysia we have a platform called Brickz.com. So Brickz actually gives us the punctual data on the price of the property that is bought in 2019. So, every year they will update all the transaction of the previous year and you will see a detail of the real price that people are willing to buy. So we will use Brickz to analyze the the price of the property and there is two more platform which is I-property and property guru. These platforms are the platforms where all the agents post all the listings and we try to get a tenant or a buyer. So based on I-property and property guru, we can check out the average rental of the area, the price that people are willing to offer for that particular area, and from Brickz, we can look at the punctual data of the last year, the price that people have actually completed in the whole process of purchasing. So based on these three platforms, we can we can give foreign investors clear data on the things that they’re buying in. So it’s pretty safe because all the data from Brickz is all related to the government. It’s the right data, yeah.
Darren: I see. I feel like we’re doing advertising for them. So if you guys listen to this advertising money, let me know. Joke aside, joke aside. So you know, we talked about before, you’re not only a real estate agent, you help people do their MM2H. What else are you working on at the moment?
Amos: We assist you to register your company. And we give you a full consultation on the rules and regulation on the text of businesses. Because if any Hong Kong people wants to come down here it’s for two reasons. One is for retirement. Two is to come here and settle down and start their business here in Malaysia. So coming here for business or coming here for your own stay, MM2H is important. And at the same time business registration is important as well. Yeah, so here Rockwell, which is the company that I’m attached to, we assist you in your corporate planning, opening, registrating your self business in Malaysia and also tax related matter.
Darren: Maybe one day our company, Denzity, can go in corporate in Malaysia one day. You’ll never know. I’ll let you know for sure when that happens. So obviously, I have a lot of questions in my mind and unfortunately, time’s running out soon. But I want to know more because right now, you know, we are—you guys are still in lockdown. And so I was just curious, right, during and after the lockdown how does the virus situation affect the way that you work? Do you think that you would try to do an alternative way like you know, we’re doing Zoom at the moment, you know some people are doing like vitural viewings to gage investors. So what kind of things do you think has changed the way we demonstrate real estate or even find customers and so on?
Amos: Oh well during the beginning of COVID-19, the lockdown, we were actually quite stressed and everything just turned differently. So as we adapt to the new norm, it actually benefited us more than without the new norm. So now we are actually doing a lot of Zoom meeting with our clients, which means that we are presenting all our properties via zoom or WhatsApp and that allows me to even sell a property in Kuala Lumpur when I’m in Johor Bahru. I can sell a property in Penang when I mean Johor Bahru, so it sort of gave us a flexibility and before the lockdown, people tend to have this feeling where like if you want me to buy a property from you, you come and meet me. Yeah, you come and talk to me face to face, that’s sincerity. But now everybody seems like “No no, you don’t have to meet me, just do Zoom and it’s fine.” Everyone is like scared to get COVID-19. So that is on the personal side.
Besides that, because of COVID-19 Malaysia is actually putting a lot of effort trying to activate the market to make the market active again. So because of COVID-19 there is actually a few changes in the government for the tax in property and also for auto mobile, which is the car. So let’s talk a bit about the Malaysian market firstly. RPGT is waived for the first house. RPGT is real property gain tax. In Malaysia, every person who sold their first house, you don’t have to pay the tax. You don’t have to pay any RPGT tax.
Darren: Oh really okay.
Amos: But your second house onwards, you actually need to pay quite a lot. It starts from 30%. So if you bought your house at 400,000 and you’re selling a 500,000 and you earn 100,000, you have to give 30% to the government.
Darren: That’s a lot of Holy crap.
Amos: So now they remove the RPGT which means that everybody is able to sell their property. The third property means three properties waived. You don’t have to pay the tax RPGT. So the other benefit is that the government actually gives a 10% reduction on any developers that are registered under this program. So a lot of buyers can actually purchase a property without giving any down payment. Okay, that is also an effort from our government to encourage people to buy at this moment. And for bank loans usually on the third house onwards, you can’t get a 90% loan margin, but now the government allows it as long as your documentation, your profile is good, even if it’s the third house if you’re purchasing your third or fourth property, you can get up to 90% loan. So these are the few things without the lockdown the government would not have done. So it’s actually a golden opportunity for the property agents right now and also the car resellers. For the car resellers as well, they removed the tax to encourage people to spend and recover the economy. So that’s the positive impact from the lockdown.
Darren: Yeah, I see. Like it’s interesting, right? Because in Hong Kong, they don’t have that, you know, because they’re not gonna give waive any stamp duty and stuff like that, even the government needs more money. But at same time this whole Denzity insight has spawn from the virus. And I really want to know more of what’s going on and everyone’s like, “Hey, know what, let’s do a zoom interview with different people.” So on that, I really want to thank you again, because this episode, actually, to be honest, is something that is very good; it’s better than expected. Because you cover a lot different things like not only about the neighborhood and so on. It’s some very easy insights and tips for our audience to learn more about what’s going on and what they need to be aware of. So I want to thank you on that. So before that, before we go, right, what kind of takeaway would you want the audience to have from this whole video?
Amos: Okay, so first of all, I would like to say that I grew up in Kuala Lumpur. And growing up in Kuala Lumpur, we basically share the same culture with Hong Kong because we watch Hong Kong drama, we listen to HK pop and we have Astro on demand, which is a same time the drama that you’re watching right now in Hong Kong is the same drama we’re watching now in Kuala Lumpur.
Darren: Oh, really? Okay.
Amos: So since we were young we have been going to singing karaoke new way, which is exactly the same with Hong Kong. So, I would like to expand my network in Hong Kong. I’m looking forward to it. So I wish that like, if you are interested to look into Malaysia, please subscribe and WhatsApp me.
Darren: Yeah, and obviously like my job is to make sure people know more about, you know, engage with you, which comes to my next question too, right? If people want to know more about the Malaysia real estate and do other services, MM2H And learn more detail about that. How would you suggest people to reach out to you and talk to you more about that?
Amos: You can WhatsApp me at my number? Do you want me to say it out loud?
Darren: No, no, I mean, I can just put everything on the show notes. That works too.
Amos: Alright, so you can put my number on it. Okay. I think WhatsApp is the best because I will reply you instantly as long as you inquire in.
Darren: Yeah. Okay. That’s good. That’s good. I don’t want people to spam you all the time and everything. But yeah, I will obviously ask you everything you have for the contact. I’ll put everything in the show notes. And with that, thanks so much again for your time and efforts. This is really a pleasure to know more about you and your work. And then what’s going on Malaysia. And maybe next time with this long, long form of interview, I’ll invite you again to talk more detail. We can even do like a quarterly or by annually or even annually, like you know updates. So, yeah, thanks for your time, and then I really enjoy this.
Amos: Yeah. All right. Thank you. Well, sorry for the broken English. I will try to do better.
Darren: No it’s good, doesn’t matter.
Amos: Always nice meeting with you.
Darren: Yeah. Thank you so much, and have a good day. See ya.
The Internet is a double-edged sword for real estate agents. On one hand, it is now easier for agents to communicate with potential clients and advertise their businesses using all kinds of social media platforms. Yet, on the other hand, clients may be sceptical and they’re not sure who to trust online where they can find millions and millions of real estate agents. In addition to the coronavirus pandemic, many businesses changed their business models to focus more on their online development. How can one stand out in such an ever-changing market?
Denzity here offers you your
business solution. As an online PropTech platform, Denzity can provide you the opportunity
to showcase your expertise to all potential clients in Hong Kong. You can build
up a profile on Denzity showing basic contact information of yourself, and more
importantly, share your professional insights through our appealing Denzity packages,
and reach out to clients like you can never imagine before.
Let’s say you’re an expert for the
Vietnam real estate market. In the past, you may be working freelance or with
an agency, and all you can do is wait for clients to come to you, or expand
your business client by client. However, now with Denzity packages, you can
proactively share your insights about the Vietnam real estate market with
anyone who browses the Denzity website. You can also interact with users
through the Q&A session, or even be a guest on our latest YouTube program
Denzity Insights to share your experiences with founder Darren Wong. We all
know that investors are prudent when it comes to real estate investment, so credibility
and professionalism are very important. Through these opportunities, you can
show clients how well you know your stuff and your willingness to help them
solve their problems. And that, boys and girls, is how you build your
reputation and personal brand.
Modern problems require modern solutions.
As a real estate expert, it is important to keep up with the real estate market
trends as well as global trends. In times of changes, it is always easier to
stay in the comfort zone and follow the traditional way. But in this fast-paced
society, this isn’t going to work. Real estate experts nowadays have to be more
creative and determined than ever to earn a place in this competitive market. Instead
of being distant with lots of forms to fill in and lots of emails
back-and-forth, it is essential to directly add value for clients. With Denzity
packages, you can interact with potential clients directly, answer their questions,
and lead them through the uncertainties of real estate investments. Many
experts may worry about how to position their businesses in the digital era and
how it may impact their businesses. Denzity can be a good starting point for
you to transit to the modern real estate industry.
Around 2,000 real estate agencies
and agents have been using Denzity packages to promote their businesses since
our launch in 2019, including experts specializing in around 100 markets like
the Hong Kong real estate market and Malaysia real estate market. Join us today
as an Denzity Expert and enjoy our exclusive Denzity package to further expand
your business. Email us at [email protected]. It is your time to shine.
Immigration
has become a hot topic in Hong Kong lately. To immigrate, it is crucial to plan
ahead. You should probably arrange your accommodations, work and bank accounts
before you arrive in your designated country. However, it can be challenging to
find information online that is truly useful, especially when it is about overseas
real estate equity investment. When you’re browsing the endless search result
page on Google, you’d probably think to yourself, “Gosh, I wish I have a friend
who knows about this kind of stuff.”
Don’t
worry buddy, Denzity is here to help. We all know real estate investment can be
challenging, especially for beginners. Denzity, as a revolutionary online PropTech
and real estate community, can help to tackle some of the most common problems.
Let’s look at the top 4 challenges for overseas real estate purchases and our
tips for you to address these problems.
I want to look for information online and do a little research myself, but I don’t even know what keywords to search!
When trying to purchase a flat in Hong Kong, we Hongkongers
can always name a few real estate agencies, which is an excellent way to start.
However, for overseas real estate purchase, it is not that easy. As a newbie
investor, you may not be familiar with foreign agencies and relevant
regulations. In times of confusion, it is always nice to have some professional
and unbiased advice. Check out the real estate experts on Denzity, where we
include profiles of thousands of global real estate experts. You can check the
basic information of these experts or agents and read their insights on a
particular market.
How do I know if the agencies are reliable or not?
In an Internet era, it is sometimes hard to fact-check
information, especially if you’re not an expert in that field. After spending
hours and hours digging on the Internet, you still can’t be sure if a
particular real estate agency is trustworthy, so you try to send them an email.
Still, because of time differences, you probably have to wait for days before
you can get a response. So you wonder, is there a faster way to do this? Yes, and
the answer is on Denzity. With our extensive independent real estate community covering
experts from all over the world, it just takes minutes for you to come up with
a list of foreign agencies you prefer.
Why
are there SO MANY words to read? I don’t understand the jargon!
There are way too many jargons in the traditional real estate
community. Real estate agents talk in abbreviations and acronyms, and honestly,
you only know MPF, FBI and LOL! However, on Denzity, we try to be casual yet
professional. We, as well as experts who work with us, speak in simple terms
that even beginner investors can understand. On every profile page, there is a
Q&A section (Aha! Another acronym we know), where experts share their
insights on a specific real estate market and interact with users like friends.
I
have some stupid questions, and I’m embarrassed to ask a professional.
First
of all, there are no stupid questions in real estate. All questions are legit,
and Denzity understands you just want to be cautious. That’s why we have a FAQ
section for users to ask any kind of questions online. Who knows, perhaps your
“stupid question” is actually a common concern among investors.
Denzity
currently includes experts from popular destinations like the Vietnam real
estate market and Malaysia real estate market, but we are looking for more! We look
forward to you joining us to build a larger and friendlier real estate
community.
Over the past years, the influence of technology on major industries have been massive. Whether by helping predict outcomes or improvising management, technology has definitely made its permanent place in the real estate industry.
In today’s video, Prash Nayar shares his opinion with Darren Wong Denzity on the future of real estate media, the role of Artificial Intelligence in the industry and much more.
Prash is the Co-founder of REXY AI, a shared buyers database fostering collaboration among real estate agents while earning them a passive income, saving them time & establishing further trust with their clients. Besides working on REXY AI, Prash is the CEO of the Real Estate TimesTV, a digital real estate media company that provides its audiences with a global perspective on the world of property.
What is the real estate game really about?
What are the challenges you actually face?
How does social media come into play?
Is it possible to pick only one social media platform to reach your audience?
How does AI benefit realtors?
Who can you trust in the industry?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:
Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.
You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.
No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.
Quick tips:
PropTech (Property Technology): The acronym PropTech is used to describe the usage of technology such as mobile applications, data analytics etc to the real estate industry. It is also known as Real Estate Technology. Individuals tend to use PropTech in order to modify the real estate market and to ease the workload within.
IoT (Internet of Things): IoT is basically a network or system embedded in devices or machines which allows them to interconnect and exchange data without the involvement of a human being. IoT helps realtors gather information and make decisions accordingly, which often acts as a support to increase sales.
BlockChain: A BlockChain is a chain of several blocks containing information in them. It mainly works with a mechanism that makes it really hard to tamper with the information inside a blockchain, making it secure and reliable. It is widely used to record transactions in the real estate industry.
AI (Artificial Intelligence): AI can be defined as the imitation of human actions and thinking, programmed in machines. The idea behind this concept is to enable computers and machines to perform more intelligently. AI can potentially enable the real estate sector to operate a lot more efficiently by saving time and energy, as well as providing valuable data and analysis.
Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
Darren Wong: Hey, Prash. Hey, how’s it going, man?
Prash Nayar: Oh, good Darren yourself?
Darren: Very good. Very good. Thanks so much for joining us, I know we have tried to arrange this for a while. I think last time I saw you was in Hong Kong a year ago, right?
Prash: In July. That is correct, my friend. It was a great, great trip for us. And we went over there and it was a pleasure to meet you and the team.
Darren: Yeah, like absolute pleasure. And I remember that event is about property tech as a pitch night. That Denzity and Asia prop tech, you know, we both co-host together, which is something that’s interesting because for your background, you’re not only from a real estate, traditional professional, you actually once stepped into the prop tech space. So it’s something that will talk to you more and explore more what’s going on there.
Prash:Beautiful, let’s do it Darren.
Darren: Yeah. So for the audience that you know, want to know more about you. Would you mind giving a short introduction of who you are and what you do.
Prash: Absolutely, sure. I’m originally from Malaysia, I’ve been in Perth, Western Australia in the last 10 years. And I’ve been in the real estate game for the last five years. So my bread and butter is real estate investment. I grow my clients wealth, wire property. And one of my passions is, well, two parts. One is film, I absolutely love film, I’ve been writing since I was 12 years old. That’s where my media comes in. And the other part is property technology as you mentioned. I think moving into real estate, and one of the things that we do is always to look at our long term vision, right? So five to ten year plan, and knowing where technology is going is where I would like to be in. And now we’ve formulated a team to push forward in creating innovation in our industry.
Darren: I see that’s something that when you said you’re interested in filming, that makes a lot of sense now because for you, you’ve been doing a good job on social media and then I think your storytelling skill is spot on and something that I wish the industry it’s like it’s pretty captivating. So I have some questions. First, let’s start with something that you know, I’m sure everyone’s asking right is, how has the COVID-19 virus affected Australia markets? And then how have you and other real estate professionals coping with it?
Prash: Sure. So I’ll start off with talking about how the market has been the last five years. So we’ve been in a downturn since the mining industry boom in 2012, 2013. We’ve seen a downward turn host the mining industry boom. So we’ve had a reduction in our values of property, and in higher supply, so you had a lot of apartments built over the last three years, so you had about 16,000 homes in the market at any given time. Where in a seller’s market, it was eight to 10,000 homes, the last three years has seen a downward trajectory. When COVID hit earlier this year. We obviously had the uncertainty of the market to place, we had a reduction of our weekly transaction. So it’s solved 50% reduction in our weekly transaction from a 600 sales per week to 300 sales per week. However, as UN’s progress, I think one thing that the Australian government did really well is to manage the lockdown. It was a staged lockdown. So in other words, the small businesses were looked after. They created a stimulus with a job keeper scheme which ensured that people of the small businesses could survive and still have a limited number of employees while they sustain the business through the downturn, through the lockdown and also post lockdown when our numbers were managed about four weeks ago, they started a stimulus to invite local businesses to start reopening again and this was also a staged approach that has in turn seen the confidence of purchasers increase. The last two weeks we’ve seen genuine buyers come into the marketplace. tire kickers are out of the market. So great to see that.
The challenge however, stays the same Darren because it has been the downturn the last five years, plus ensuring that the expectations or the expectations of the sellers of the market price has to match the actual value of what buyers are willing to pay. So that’s still the remaining challenge. However, rental values have been increasing. So earlier in q1 of 2020, your vacancy rates were reduced from 2.7% to about 1.8%, which is great. That tells us that in the coming months rental values will increase in turn, improve and boost the investor market, which will then increase the price. So in a nutshell, while the Covid credit crisis has caused uncertainty, I think in the last four weeks, it has truly showcased that the true buyers are out there. We’ve gone through the downturn. Now we’re looking at where we can take the market forward. I think just before the interview we mentioned about the first home buyer incentive announced just this last weekend, up to about $55,000 is available for first home buyers, if they’re looking to build. So I think the next month should spill a good and positive light for the market overall.
Darren: That’s great. Um, I think that is something that a lot of real estate markets do. I’ve interviewed a couple experts, and they also said that the government is trying really hard to help out because, you know, the law market was undergoing recessions and uncertainties and stuff like that. So hearing from you about, you know, to understand what’s going down south is like, that’s awesome. And so a bit more from your side, right? So I know that like, you know, you started with the sales side of the real estate industry. How do you get into the real estate media side?
Prash: Sure. So as my first two years Darren. One of my biggest challenges was credibility. As you know, in the real estate game, it’s all about representing a person’s asset. And in the area that I’m dealing with, I work between your 750 to 1.5 million, and the beautiful character homes. One of the things I realized is that the media often portrayed the negative side of real estate, auprop, obviously, itself. One of the things that I’m truly passionate about, as I mentioned earlier, it’s about film and the power of media, it’s about showcasing the truth of a particular industry. And if I can show that from the point of view of peers, of my peers in the industry, then why not? So I created the real estate times to cut out the bullshit from the marketplace and showcase what is truly happening. And that has grown over the years. I started off becoming a media corporation, forming videos for my properties, and doing quick one minute or two minute videos about lifestyle surrounding properties as well. I think that was a highly important way to show that listening, while property can be a way of expanding your wealth, it’s also a lifestyle possibility. So that’s how the extension came about. Creating The Real Estate Times and I’ve been enjoying it since it’s merging my two passions.
Darren: That’s good. Yeah, So when I met you, right, I looked into your content. I was like, wow, this is like something that looks like a very high production. But then obviously, I think there are some contents you create which is actually very, very, you know, DIY and a lot of things are very simple. But, I mean, production aside, right? I’m working on this, this, like a setup I do at home. It’s not really glamorous, but I think people just care about the content. And what you’re trying to do is paint a culture because real estate is not just numbers, it is more than that. It’s people interacting with the space and obviously I’m really emotional about this whole sector and so as you, I’m sure, but then you know, we can do hours and hours about it. So since surely that you have experimented with different stories style, like storytelling style and content, which you’re really good at, what type of formats and content do your audience like the most? And why do you think that’s the case?
Prash: I think one of the things that we made a point to do with our content is to summarize our values or what we want to or the message that we want to portray within 60 to 90 seconds. As you know, the social media attention span is fairly short. And if you can get your message across in 60 to 90 seconds, and I think a lot of my clients and my audience has been responding fairly well to that as much as I mentioned, I’m able to speak about it for hours and then as good as it will be.
If I can summarize my content in that 60 seconds then I’ve successfully done so. And the way I do that is a very simple intro outro and have three points of summary of the message so I’ve been doing them for variable things for the last three years now. And it’s really turned my cold prospects into warm ideas that they see me as the way I am on video, that I appear the same in person. And I think that’s where a lot of professionals are unable to come across the authenticity line. Because if you are authentic and if you are genuine, you speak from your heart, and when you speak from your heart, passion flows. And that’s where I believe that the true connection is established across the power of the media.
Darren: I see. So when I watch your contents, right, in real estate times, you have covered more than just real estate. And obviously, we touched on a little bit just now on culture and everything but what’s a reason behind that when you’re crafting the journeys and series and so on?
Prash: Sure, to be honest, the last three years and five years in my career has been a growth process that led me growing, to become the person that I am today. And one of the things I’ve always wanted to do instead of preaching something is to share my learnings and that’s exactly what I’m doing. So I’m sharing my experience. Just over the last five years, be it with learning true business be it with the apps that I’m utilizing, be it in my project in artificial intelligence, or with what is happening with my community in real estate, if I can share that with my peers and my clients, then to me that’s an extension of who I am. And if that is what is set across in my business, then I believe you will be the great way of portraying the way I run my business. So again, back to authenticity, right? As much as I would like to preach real estate in any way I can. That’s not what I’m only about, you know, so it’s all about sharing my learnings and be that with exercise with my mental mind and my body, be it with business, in my learnings, or with my community support. I believe it’s connecting all of it to form the person that I am and in turn our end clients should benefit from it too.
Darren: That’s great. That’s great. I think I want to get to the AI soon because it’s obviously something I want to ask you more about. It’s something I’m still learning. And I do want to ask some questions later on about how everything ties in together. So before that, right, because like we both know the real estate experts, KOLs, professionals any like jargon to use to classify that uses a lot of social media to present their information. And then in your point of view or something that you are really close with, how has it changed? You know, like during the year and how does your approach change, according to those platforms that evolve through time?
Prash: Sure. Sure. And I think that’s been the biggest issue with social media that has been that many landscapes, that many platforms have come in the last five years, that we find it hard to pick one and that is my advice to all professionals choose one that you’re comfortable with. And for me, it’s Instagram and Facebook. So Instagram, I’m big on as you know, Darren, I love my Sunday, use. Simple. It’s about just making sure that your message goes across. So to be honest with you that has been one that I took onto myself. The idea is consistency, right? If you don’t think you can maintain consistency, then only pick one that you’re comfortable with and go ahead with that. So I believe it’s where your audience lies. If you think that LinkedIn is the place for you, for professionals, then sustain your audience on LinkedIn. If you think Instagram is the one, then go ahead with that. But I take my cues from Gary Vaynerchuk. And one of the things that he said is to create a video pillar content. If you have one pillar content, for example, a two minute video, which can be put onto YouTube and can then be put on Facebook, you can take snippets of it, like 30 seconds snippet, 60 seconds snippets you can put onto your LinkedIn and Instagram. So it’s understanding your flow and how the platforms can be affected utilizing one media content.
Darren: I mean, if Gary V says so you got to go with it because he’s the one who is— it’s true. I mean, it’s good. It seems like we have the same kind of people we listen to and learn from and everything. So when I wrapped this whole interview with you, in my head there were so many questions because I think you are really diverse. Not only that, you know you’re a good storyteller, but it seems like it has been since early on you have that ready, you’re, you know, doing the sell side helping clients you know, connecting different dots together, then you got the property technology, so I was very complex because I’m working on that too. It’s not easy, you know, it’s very foreign. And at the same time it’s like you coming together. So being at the forefront in real estate you know, I call it a new age of the Real Estate’s sector. How do you see the future of real estate media, and how would technology like AI, benefit the whole sector?
Prash: Sure. I think I see it from a quadrant point of view Darren. The idea is simple. We want to benefit our end clients.
In this scenario there are purchases and there are sellers, I’d be managing an asset that is backed by a real world asset. Ideas property is the future of where you would see a growing wealth. My media is about the front of the property. The technology is about the systems and my sales is the transactional element to it. So that’s how all three are connected. The future of media to answer your question, I would see this as what we mentioned earlier, social media itself, because attention for one, it’s growing shorter by the years and everything is in our hands, you know, the platform is in our you know, our mobile phones, then that is where we should be gravitating towards value, value chain providers such as your social media, so videos would be your best way forward. The future of media I see it is in social media itself, and that’s what we’ve been focusing on. With technology, the system comes into where you predict real estate will take forward. So I would say anything that can benefit our end clients, anything that can go into automation and outsourcing. That’s where we put our focus in. Right. And that’s how our machine learning comes into play. So with technology, with AI, the idea is to ensure ease and accessibility for our end client.
Darren: That’s great. I think I might have to steal some lines from you because it’s something that I have a hard time telling people what’s going on.
Prash: The core is all three. They are always a benefit of our end client. It’s a long game for us right Darren? We always got the properties for a one year, two year thing, and if you put it into perspective of a ten year plan, then everything should fall into place.
Darren: Hopefully that’s something that— and obviously as founders we are. We think that way every day. But you know, it’s a hard, hard, hard journey but before like so, because there’s some questions that you know, they’re in talking to you and I want to know what your point of view is for investors utilizing social media to also learn about, you know, investing, how the property investor had better informed decisions, who they can trust and everything. But before everything, right, it’s something that I have to ask you because when I met you, you talked about Rexy, the AI, Rexy AI, and before everything comes in, I want to ask you that question, because it seems like something I would be really curious about. So how does everything lead to Rexy AI? And would you maybe explain more about what it does, and what the vision is for the whole project?
Prash: Absolutely. So I’ll start off with what Rexy is. The word Rexy stands for real estate. So the r-e real estate DNA, the x-y is the DNA in real estate and the idea is going back to basics about collaboration. See, I believe that when it comes to purchasing a property, there are many aspects to the entire transaction the A to Z of the buying process, generally a salesman person falls into the place of representing the element of the asset only. Then you have yourself an agent, you have your financers, you have the trades that are involved. The idea of Rexy is that we are a community of agents, brokers and trades powered by the unlimited power of artificial intelligence. Now, where the AI comes into place is with regards to the data that we are collecting. On a basic transaction, we understand that a purchaser purchases a home and potentially will resell it in the next five to seven years. That’s the average in Australia. Understanding the journey firstly, which in turn tells us about their buying behavior should help us then predict where they will be in the five to seven years. So the goal of our community is to be able to serve them throughout the journey, not just being a pill agent, but being a really an agent that focuses on relationships. That’s how Rexy AI was formed initially; our vision was to have that in place. But the essence of the community is in collaboration, which is where I see the future of AI Darren.
Now one of the things that we believe is that AI is currently being treated as the space race back in the day, countries across the world are competing on who can form the best AI. One of the best solutions to that is collaboration. A quick example on what’s happening with Covid currently, as we know, vaccines are being created by about 16 to 18 countries at the moment, right that are pressing forward in creating the vaccine, how they’re doing it is by collaborating on a resource or on the knowledge that they gained. So as soon as something is gained in one country that is shared across the other nations that are creating it as well. That’s where I see the future of it. So besides being a competing industry, as real estate generally is known for, with automation, and with the future of computing, collaboration needs to be the way forward.
That’s where I truly stand. That’s the essence of what we’re trying to create. And where that falls into place, once again, is with regards to delivering value for end clients. My goal, be able to collaborate with the peers in my industry, not competing for the well and benefit of our end client. So right now, it’s all about collecting data and understanding the process. Without data, there is no machine learning. And machine learning, as we know, falls in two places: that’s robotics and that’s prediction analysis. Our system is all about predictive analysis, and how we can then predict the future of our transactions.
Darren: I see. That’s a really ambitious vision you have and at the same time too there’s so many platform popping out like, this morning I saw like two platforms raise money coming into Hong Kong, you know, I’m in Hong Kong, and they’re just like, just so many different platform is seems like you know, its going to be I wouldn’t say a battle, it’s more like a lot of people are going into space and excited about it. So in your point of view, too, right? When there’s so many different options like real estate platforms like Australia, I think there are a bunch of them. How would you think that the future of real estate platform or the whole sector is going to become?
Prash: Yes, I think what you are creating Darren with Denzity is an amazing example. And so to answer your question, because it’s about a collective of people who are experts in their industry, number one, experience in the industry and the passion to help that’s key, right? Because I believe that’s where the future is because you can enter the industry and have a vision or have a goal of creating multiple streams of revenue, it’s highly possible. But if your vision lies in helping the future of the industry, then that’s where I believe the strength lies in so in a place where our public or our end clients can come to to find people who are experts number one, providing true value number two, and number three, have a heart of collaboration that should be the way forward. That’s who I would personally trust, right at the end of the day if I see you in a platform and you’re there sharing the information for the benefit of all, then I believe that you are not out there to look after yourself. And in the future that’s what will exactly separate the the human touch, and the computational elements. As you and I both know, every industry is going to change with regards to automation. So anyone clicking buttons, more than picking up the phone. So our goal is to become the the forefront number one of that transaction, and number two to become the trusted advisor. So a platform that has all of that combined, (i.e, Denzity) should be a future.
Darren: That’s flattering. Very flattering. If i want to steal some lines in the future, if i need to raise some money next time, I’m going to steal some lines from this and be like hey “source from this interview.” So, no, thank you. I’m really flattered. Thank you, I really hope something that like we’re both working on, or something that even Personally, I really want to thank you because we both at least we coherent each other, because that’s what we believe in, you know, it’s to help the industry. So something that the audience obviously might be interested in learning about, you know, real estate, digitization, their property tag or AI and everything, and then so some audience might be investors. So something that I’m really curious to, in your point of view, which you have been around the social media space long enough and the media space, how can investors be careful or kind of be aware when they have consumed these kind of real estate media. I mean, one more thing to add, right is that you know, media is great. However, there are bound to have bad players, bound to have people that are not meant to be, you know, good hearted. So I want to know your point of view on that as something that I, even for myself am curious about.
Prash: Yes, well, I think the first thing is that you’re right. There is a lot of news out there that is untrimmed. That’s how I would say it. That is, watching the news first thing in the morning, right, our first thing to do is to trim out the fat, cut out the negativity and try to understand what’s happening in the world. I think every investor that’s out there should understand the source of the news that they are reading. That’s number one. And knowing that not every news outlet is out there to just spread the right and the true news. Everyone has an agenda behind them. So knowing where I guess, who owns this media corporation and what agendas they’re running the corporation for, is highly important. I mentioned earlier the reason why I started in Real Estate Times is to cut out the bullshit I mean that true and well. Knowing who’s running it, what they stand for, their principles, and how they’re delivering their news is very, very important. So I say that to all of my investors, all of my clients, right, read the article is fair and fine but know the source, understand the information on where it’s coming from and always get a second opinion. So that will be my best recommendation. I say that to my friends and family. So I would say that to my clients as well.
Darren: Mm hmm. Yeah. That’s summarized really well, because it’s something that is a big discussion in the industry. And I feel that, you know, like not to make the older generation not a good player, it’s just because back in the day, there aren’t many ways to understand what’s going on. And then in Hong Kong, for example, there are a lot of these kind of scams or mistakes people make and it turns and make the whole industry I said before already on this video, they make them sound like a very bad industry, and so on. So it’s something that is very good to hear from you because sometimes when I tell this concept to people, everyone’s like we’re talking about the media sector in real estate media sector is very efficient. You know, everything I was like no, it’s not. You have no idea how much things there are that no one knows about, or things as missing. And you can’t just take an article and say, “Oh, this is exactly what I need to do. x-y-z.” So, it’s something that like, I think that’s a very good way to end this whole interview. And but before you go, what kind of takeaway, would you like the audience to have this video?
Prash: Sure. Well, one thing I would say is that at the end of the day, always look at where the future lies, understand future growth. Look at the next five to seven years be it if you’re investing in real estate, be it if you’re looking at the technology of real estate as well and work your way backwards, find your comfort zone in that line, in that industry. And reach out to experts i.e., yourself Darren because at the end of the day, we are here to help. You know if you are building something again, I’ve known you, since I met you in Hong Kong, the passion is that genuinely if that genuincy lies in your soul, then that will be part of your principles and your business too. So that’s my ultimate takeaway. Read the person behind the camera, make sure you know the principles and you will know who you want to work with. Also be transparent. You and I both know where the future of blockchain is taking us. There will be everything in there. So with the advent of AI, IoT and blockchain, I think there’ll be a lot less falsity in the media. People will be peer reviewed, and where the technology takes us, it can only be better as long as the right people are leading it.
Darren: Yeah, I think that’s a great way to let the audience understand how it’s going to be in the future and stuff like that. And I feel like we can talk about this for another like three, four hours. And obviously for us, we do plan to— if this whole insight series is good, people like it, we’d want to do something more specific. It can be property tech, it can be media itself, something more specific. So as an interim, right, if the audience want to know more about you or want to know more about your work, what are a couple of ways that you suggest them to reach out to you.
Prash: Brilliant, well, you can do it in three forms. Number one, please head on to the website. So that’s a realestate.com.au. Also with my Instagram @therealestatetimesTV. Also, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn, my name Prash Nayar, more than happy to help you in any way. Again, we are focused in Western Australia, but we’ve got our agents across Australia as well. So the idea is that any part in our country you like to invest in, we’re here to help and you can reach out to us in all three forms.
Darren: That’s great, I obviously I’ll include everything in the show notes in this whole video description. And I just want to say thanks for your time, and this has actually been a blast and it’s something that I really want to talk to you more about in the future.
Prash: I look forward to our next chat Darren. Thanks for having me on.
Darren: Thanks. Thanks for coming in and then talk to you next time. Thank you.
Prash: Sounds good. Take care, my friend.
Darren: You too. Bye.
Darren Wong：嘿，Prash。嘿，最近怎麼樣?
Prash Nayar： 哦，Darren ，你好嗎？
Darren ：很好。很好。非常感謝您加入我們，我知道我們已經嘗試安排了一段時間。然後我想我上次見到你是在一年前在香港吧？
Prash：在7月。正確，朋友。對我們來說，那是一次好旅程。我們去了那兒，很高興認識你和你的團隊。
Darren ：是的，就像絕對的快樂。我記得那那節日是關於房地產技術的熱鬧之夜。Denzity 和 Asia PropTech 支撐技術是我們共同共同主辦的，這很有趣，因為對於你背景，你不僅來自房地產，傳統專業人士，而且實際上你曾經踏入道具技術領域。因此，我想與你更多地交流，並探索更多發生的事情。
Darren ：太好了。嗯，我認為很多房地產市場都在這樣做。我已經採訪了幾位專家，他們還說，政府真的在盡力提供幫助，因為，您知道，法律市場正在經歷衰退，不確定性之類的事情。因此，聽到您的來信，以了解南部發生的事情真是太棒了。還有更多從您身邊對吧？所以我知道，就像您知道的那樣，您是從房地產行業的銷售方開始的。您如何進入房地產媒體領域？
Darren ：很好。是的，所以當我遇見你時，對，我調查了你的內容。哇，我覺得素質很高。但是顯然，我認為你制造的某些內容實際上是非常非常非常了解，DIY和很多事情都非常簡單。但是，我的意思是，除了制造之外，對嗎？我正在為此進行工作，就像我在家中所做的設置一樣。不是完善，但是我認為人們只是在乎內容。你想要做的是描繪一種文化，因為房地產不僅是數字，它是是人們與空間互動，很顯然，我對整個領域都非常感動，所以，我敢肯定，但是你知道我們可以花很多時間。因此，既然可以肯定你嘗試了不同的故事風格，例如講故事的風格和你真正擅長的內容是你的受眾最喜歡哪種類型的格式和內容？你為什麼會這樣呢？
Darren ：太好了。那很棒。我想我想盡快進入AI，因為這顯然是我想向您詢問的更多信息。這是我還在學習的東西。我確實想稍後再問一些有關一切如何联系在一起的問題。所以在那之前，對，因為就像我們倆都知道房地產專家，網路達人，專業人士，例如任何行話都可以用來分類的人，這些人使用大量的社交媒體來展示他們的信息。然後，從你的觀點或你真正接近的觀點來看，它是如何變化的？根據這些平台，你知道，例如在一年中以及你的方法如何變化隨著時間的推移而發展？
Darren ：希望那是一件事情-顯然我們是創始人。我們每天都這樣想。但您知道，這是一段艱辛，艱辛的旅程，但在此之前，是因為您知道一些問題，他們在與您交談，我想知道您對利用社交媒體進行投資的投資者的看法了解有關投資的信息，了解適當的人如何做出更明智的決定，他們可以信任的人以及一切。但是在一切都對之前，我必須要問你一件事，因為當我遇到你時，你談到了Rexy，人工智能，Rexy AI，在一切出現之前，我想問你這個問題，因為我似乎有點我真的很好奇。那麼，一切如何導致Rexy AI？您可能會進一步解釋它的作用以及整個項目的願景嗎？
Darren ：我明白了。那是一個非常雄心勃勃的願景，同時也有很多平台如雨後春筍般冒出來，今天早上我看到有兩個平台在籌集資金進入香港，你知道，我在香港，而且就像，有這麼多不同的平台似乎就像你知道的我不會說一場戰鬥，這更像是很多人進入這市場並為此感到興奮。因此，從你的角度來看，對嗎？當有太多不同的選擇，例如房地產像澳洲這樣的平台，我想有很多。你如何看待房地產平台或整個行業的未來？
Darren ：那很討人喜歡。很受寵若驚。如果將來我想竊取一些台詞，如果下次需要籌集資金，我將從中竊取一些台詞，就像嘿“這次採訪的消息來源”。謝謝。很客氣。謝謝，我真的希望像我們雙方都在努力，甚至希望就個人而言，我真的要感謝你，因為我們至少彼此團結一致，因為這就是我們的信念，你知道，這就是幫助行業。因此，很明顯，聽眾可能會對了解房地產，數字化，他們的財產標籤或AI以及其他所有東西感興趣，因此，某些聽眾可能就是投資者。因此，從您的角度來看，我真的很想知道您已經在社交媒體領域和媒體領域呆了足夠長的時間了，投資者在消費了這類真實資產後又該如何謹慎或意識到？房地產媒體。我的意思是，還要補充一件事，對了，您知道媒體很棒。但是，注定會有壞人，注定會有一些本不該成為好人的人。因此，我想知道您對此觀點的看法，即使我自己對此也感到好奇。
Darren ：嗯。是的總結得非常好，因為這是業界討論的重點。而且我想，您知道，不想讓老一代人成為一名好球員，這只是因為回到過去，沒有太多方法可以了解正在發生的事情。然後在香港，例如，人們犯下了許多這類騙局或錯誤，然後又使整個行業變成了我之前在視頻中所說的整個行業，它們使它們聽起來像是一個非常糟糕的行業，等等。上。因此，很高興收到您的來信，因為有時當我將這一概念告訴人們時，每個人都像我們在談論房地產行業中的媒體部門一樣，效率很高。你知道嗎，我當時的一切都不是，不是。您不知道有多少人不知道或缺少什麼。而且，您不能只聽一篇文章說：“哦，這正是我要做的。x-y-z。”因此，我認為這是結束整個採訪的一種很好的方法。但是，在您出發之前，您想讓觀眾欣賞這部影片嗎？
Darren ：是的，我認為這是讓聽眾了解未來情況以及諸如此類的好方法。我覺得我們可以再談論三個，四個小時。顯然，對於我們來說，我們確實計劃-如果整個見解系列都不錯，人們喜歡它，我們希望做一些更具體的事情。它可以是房地產技術，也可以是媒體本身，更具體一些。因此，作為過渡，正確的是，如果聽眾想了解更多關於您的信息或想要了解更多關於您的作品的信息，那麼您建議他們通過哪些方式與他們聯繫。
